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I'm actually with slaphappy on this one (for the first and probably last time ever).
87 vs. 75 hours does not affect me personally, just so that's clear. I always drop to mins or lower for military and/or QOL anyway. I do NOT believe that senior pilots (especially CA's with real lives and real bills) should have to live a 75-hour life on the off chance that the company might want to furlough some FOs someday. You have to understand there is a risk of getting only 75 hours (ie reserve), but I'm not going to ask folks who routinely credit over 100 by creative bidding to drop down to 75 voluntarily. What if your neighbor got layed off from his job...if he knocked on your door and asked for you to sign over 25% of your paycheck to him for the duration, what would you say? It is probably in the overall best interest of a regional pilot group to furlough rather than make drastic cuts in line credit. The senior pilots are actually the ones who are in a harder spot...they are WAY past V1 and cannot just quit to go make more money. They have few options, they have to live on what they get handed and may not have a lot of flexibility to work side jobs. The junior FOs are not really going to be harmed by furlough...they can make as much or more money working at a variety of odd jobs. Nobody works as a regional FO to make money, they do it to hold their place in line for upgrade. And if line reductions or furloughs are being debated, there is no upgrade progression anyway...might as well be home every night as opposed to commuting to domicile to sit reserve and not fly. If some furloughed FOs make the same money at outside jobs, and the remaining pilots get to keep their income level up, it's a win for everyone. I only see it this way because regional pay is so pitiful...if the average furloughed FO were going to take a pay cut, I'd be OK with reduced lines. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531137)
I'm actually with slaphappy on this one (for the first and probably last time ever).
87 vs. 75 hours does not affect me personally, just so that's clear. I always drop to mins or lower for military and/or QOL anyway. I do NOT believe that senior pilots (especially CA's with real lives and real bills) should have to live a 75-hour life on the off chance that the company might want to furlough some FOs someday. You have to understand there is a risk of getting only 75 hours (ie reserve), but I'm not going to ask folks who routinely credit over 100 by creative bidding to drop down to 75 voluntarily. What if your neighbor got layed off from his job...if he knocked on your door and asked for you to sign over 25% of your paycheck to him for the duration, what would you say? It is probably in the overall best interest of a regional pilot group to furlough rather than make drastic cuts in line credit. The senior pilots are actually the ones who are in a harder spot...they are WAY past V1 and cannot just quit to go make more money. They have few options, they have to live on what they get handed and may not have a lot of flexibility to work side jobs. The junior FOs are not really going to be harmed by furlough...they can make as much or more money working at a variety of odd jobs. Nobody works as a regional FO to make money, they do it to hold their place in line for upgrade. And if line reductions or furloughs are being debated, there is no upgrade progression anyway...might as well be home every night as opposed to commuting to domicile to sit reserve and not fly. If some furloughed FOs make the same money at outside jobs, and the remaining pilots get to keep their income level up, it's a win for everyone. I only see it this way because regional pay is so pitiful...if the average furloughed FO were going to take a pay cut, I'd be OK with reduced lines. |
Originally Posted by reelbigchair
(Post 531144)
You must have missed the part where it says guarantee is 75 hours... if you're budgeting for more than that, you have no one to complain to except yourself.
Assuming an average regional CA makes about $70...at 75 hours/month that comes out to $63K. Is that "living the dream"? That's good money if you live in a crash pad and your only hobby or activity is guitar hero...but if you get a family and a life, things will look different. Are you OK with planning $63K as your max income for the rest of your life? Be honest... |
If I get furloughed, I have nowhere to go. It is pretty much impossible to get ANY job right now. I will most likely have to sell everything I own (not much) and hopefully move in with one of my friends. I would pretty much be homeless. But it's a good thing you get to keep your 100 hour lines so you can afford your Audi RS4 and your 2 houses.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531137)
I'm actually with slaphappy on this one (for the first and probably last time ever).
87 vs. 75 hours does not affect me personally, just so that's clear. I always drop to mins or lower for military and/or QOL anyway. I do NOT believe that senior pilots (especially CA's with real lives and real bills) should have to live a 75-hour life on the off chance that the company might want to furlough some FOs someday. You have to understand there is a risk of getting only 75 hours (ie reserve), but I'm not going to ask folks who routinely credit over 100 by creative bidding to drop down to 75 voluntarily. What if your neighbor got layed off from his job...if he knocked on your door and asked for you to sign over 25% of your paycheck to him for the duration, what would you say? It is probably in the overall best interest of a regional pilot group to furlough rather than make drastic cuts in line credit. The senior pilots are actually the ones who are in a harder spot...they are WAY past V1 and cannot just quit to go make more money. They have few options, they have to live on what they get handed and may not have a lot of flexibility to work side jobs. The junior FOs are not really going to be harmed by furlough...they can make as much or more money working at a variety of odd jobs. Nobody works as a regional FO to make money, they do it to hold their place in line for upgrade. And if line reductions or furloughs are being debated, there is no upgrade progression anyway...might as well be home every night as opposed to commuting to domicile to sit reserve and not fly. If some furloughed FOs make the same money at outside jobs, and the remaining pilots get to keep their income level up, it's a win for everyone. I only see it this way because regional pay is so pitiful...if the average furloughed FO were going to take a pay cut, I'd be OK with reduced lines. Rickair, I have to say thanx for all your support to all of the Junior FOs on the bottom of the seniority lists, I hope you tell this to one or a group of us in person. I mean where can we just go out and find jobs just like that? Maybe you should get a job fair together for us that has all these odd jobs out there so we can do them in our spare time, maybe you might need me to paint your house or mow your lawn. Some of the part time jobs at the retail stores are not hiring either, or if they are not someone like me with an education and part time schedule that I could work between my flying. Oh wait I could go back to instructing, but my school isnt hiring or like some friends wont let or unable to hire them back. Oh and I forgot that is located on the east coast and I live out west. Plus, why is it my fault that a senior capt couldn't seem to manage their money deep into their career? Im am not saying I need or want a hand out, or that a capt should reduce their hours to possibly save a job or two down the road (yet there is no guarantee the next day or down the road) but a little respect would be nice, that we all are trying to keep our jobs, while all the rumors about furlough are out there day after day. It's flat out survival from paycheck to paycheck for some. I guess its just simple you forgot or dont care what its like for us on the bottom of the lists for you to say that it would hurt any less. |
BH...lucky for us people like Rickair have next to no say in the matter! Keep the fingers crossed...and your toes!
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531185)
Nobody would work for someone who was only going to pay them 75 hours forever.
Assuming an average regional CA makes about $70...at 75 hours/month that comes out to $63K. Is that "living the dream"? That's good money if you live in a crash pad and your only hobby or activity is guitar hero...but if you get a family and a life, things will look different. Are you OK with planning $63K as your max income for the rest of your life? Be honest... I'm a 2nd almost 3rd year FO with no wife, girlfriend house or kids (that I know of), but many of my classmates had wives and or houses. I assume that the same kind of thing existed in the classes that are in jeopardy so although I don't take offense to your opinion, I vehemently disagree. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 531185)
Nobody would work for someone who was only going to pay them 75 hours forever.
Assuming an average regional CA makes about $70...at 75 hours/month that comes out to $63K. Is that "living the dream"? That's good money if you live in a crash pad and your only hobby or activity is guitar hero...but if you get a family and a life, things will look different. Are you OK with planning $63K as your max income for the rest of your life? Be honest... 63,000 is a lot of money to a lot of families, my sympathies are limited. I have a lot more sympathy for the junior F/O who also has a family, you make it sound SOOO easy to just go out and get a new job, but I really doubt finding a new job is really that easy. Seniority guarantees that you are less likely to be furloughed, Seniority does not guarantee you a certain number of hours on your line. I use the word guarantee, because we already have that, and it's 75 hours. If that isn't enough income for you, go to another airline/job that will pay you more. However if job security is more important to you, than by all means stay at SkyWest and accept your 80 hour line when times are tough, and run to the bank with your 100 hour line when times are good. |
Originally Posted by reelbigchair
(Post 531303)
Seniority guarantees that you are less likely to be furloughed, Seniority does not guarantee you a certain number of hours on your line.
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Originally Posted by BHopper88
(Post 531199)
Rickair,
I have to say thanx for all your support to all of the Junior FOs on the bottom of the seniority lists, I hope you tell this to one or a group of us in person. I mean where can we just go out and find jobs just like that? Maybe you should get a job fair together for us that has all these odd jobs out there so we can do them in our spare time, maybe you might need me to paint your house or mow your lawn. Some of the part time jobs at the retail stores are not hiring either, or if they are not someone like me with an education and part time schedule that I could work between my flying. Oh wait I could go back to instructing, but my school isnt hiring or like some friends wont let or unable to hire them back. Oh and I forgot that is located on the east coast and I live out west. Plus, why is it my fault that a senior capt couldn't seem to manage their money deep into their career? Im am not saying I need or want a hand out, or that a capt should reduce their hours to possibly save a job or two down the road (yet there is no guarantee the next day or down the road) but a little respect would be nice, that we all are trying to keep our jobs, while all the rumors about furlough are out there day after day. It's flat out survival from paycheck to paycheck for some. I guess its just simple you forgot or dont care what its like for us on the bottom of the lists for you to say that it would hurt any less. I've been at the bottom of two lists in the last five years. I've been real close to furlough, and was caught between jobs on 9/11...ie no recall to look forward to. Junior Regional FO is a crap job...you'd be surprised how easy it would be to replace that income, and get a better QOL in the bargain. |
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