ˇRevolución!
02-21-2009, 11:34 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 171
Originally Posted by TurboFan
First off, awesome post and well said. I couldn't agree more. Once upon a time somewhere in the flight levels I was told a true story about how a Pilot (who happened to be the one telling the story) and his Anesthesiologist buddy were talking. When the pilot (a long-time captain at a regional airline) mentioned his pay the Anesthesiologist was blown away. The Anesthesiologist commented on how his job was similar in the fact that it is highly automated, fairly routine and the operator really only gets to show his skill if something goes wrong. He also commented that he only held the life of a couple human beings in his hand on a daily basis whilst the Pilot can hold literally hundreds in his. Yet the Anesthesiologist was making well over $100,000 more a year than the Pilot. This is in essence what I think is wrong with the airline industry. Why is there such a discrepancy here?
WE ARE UNDERPAID!
Don't even get me started on the strength of our union. I am a proud ALPA member, however, I think that the current conditions in our industry (both regional and mainline) prove how weak we've become. We have allowed CEO's and shareholders to walk their way to their G5's and multi-million dollar mansions on OUR backs! Some First Officers in our industry literally qualify for food stamps while their CEO's are busy packing their golden parachutes. No matter how you argue it, that is wrong!
Another enemy for pilots is the FAA. They are completely in cahoots with the airlines. A good example of this is the NTSB's Most Wanted list. For years one of the #1 items has been "Reduce Accidents and Incidents Caused by Human Fatigue - Set working hour limits for flight crews, aviation mechanics and air traffic controllers based on fatigue research, circadian rhythms, and sleep and rest requirements." Yet at many regionals we are still routinely given schedules where reduced rest is scheduled! The NTSB has been trying to persuade the FAA to change it's rules regarding crew rest and scheduling for years, yet the FAA refuses to do so. Why? I thought they were looking out for us and the safety of our passengers? Or could it be that doing so would potentially cause the airlines to hire more crews in order to deal with rest issues which would in turn cost more money... Hmm. I'm sure the FAA has a perfectly good reason reason why they wouldn't make changes that would increase safety
. Just look at the Comair accident. Directly attributed to both pilot and controller fatigue. The only reason the FAA doesn't make changes to crew rest and duty requirements is because the airlines lobby Washington so hard that no one has the guts to risk losing funding for their next election. I guess 49 lives is a small price to pay to make sure you get that few extra bucks for a few more TV ads next election season.
Seriously guys this industry is in a sad, sad state. The underground, grass-roots movement that Tzadik suggests is just what we need to start attempting to make some actual change around here. It's obvious ALPA and the other pilot unions are moving at a snails pace if at all on these issues. I really feel that if the public knew exactly what was going on out there, they would force change. We all know the only thing that matters to the people that control our lives is $money$. You start messing with that, and things will change, guaranteed. I'm not sure how to do it, but this thread can be a place for ideas to come together.
We all know things need to change. Let's stand as one and start to force that change!
WE ARE UNDERPAID!
Don't even get me started on the strength of our union. I am a proud ALPA member, however, I think that the current conditions in our industry (both regional and mainline) prove how weak we've become. We have allowed CEO's and shareholders to walk their way to their G5's and multi-million dollar mansions on OUR backs! Some First Officers in our industry literally qualify for food stamps while their CEO's are busy packing their golden parachutes. No matter how you argue it, that is wrong!
Another enemy for pilots is the FAA. They are completely in cahoots with the airlines. A good example of this is the NTSB's Most Wanted list. For years one of the #1 items has been "Reduce Accidents and Incidents Caused by Human Fatigue - Set working hour limits for flight crews, aviation mechanics and air traffic controllers based on fatigue research, circadian rhythms, and sleep and rest requirements." Yet at many regionals we are still routinely given schedules where reduced rest is scheduled! The NTSB has been trying to persuade the FAA to change it's rules regarding crew rest and scheduling for years, yet the FAA refuses to do so. Why? I thought they were looking out for us and the safety of our passengers? Or could it be that doing so would potentially cause the airlines to hire more crews in order to deal with rest issues which would in turn cost more money... Hmm. I'm sure the FAA has a perfectly good reason reason why they wouldn't make changes that would increase safety
. Just look at the Comair accident. Directly attributed to both pilot and controller fatigue. The only reason the FAA doesn't make changes to crew rest and duty requirements is because the airlines lobby Washington so hard that no one has the guts to risk losing funding for their next election. I guess 49 lives is a small price to pay to make sure you get that few extra bucks for a few more TV ads next election season.Seriously guys this industry is in a sad, sad state. The underground, grass-roots movement that Tzadik suggests is just what we need to start attempting to make some actual change around here. It's obvious ALPA and the other pilot unions are moving at a snails pace if at all on these issues. I really feel that if the public knew exactly what was going on out there, they would force change. We all know the only thing that matters to the people that control our lives is $money$. You start messing with that, and things will change, guaranteed. I'm not sure how to do it, but this thread can be a place for ideas to come together.
We all know things need to change. Let's stand as one and start to force that change!
do i hear calls for RALPA?
if we're gonna be locked up in this room for a lot longer than we thought, why not slap a new coat of paint on the walls and wash the sheets.
If it comes to light that a major contributing factor of the Colgan crash was pilot error/lack of experience it might put us in a unique position to spin a little media attention towards our cause. I saw an awful lot of pilots on a previous thread of mine about stalls putting in serious effort on their own time to learn stuff that arguably should have been taught by the company.
“Only through unity will we further our profession.” says it all.
Viva la……
02-22-2009, 12:02 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 171
is RALPA that crazy?
i count close to 17000 regional pilots that currently pay dues to ALPA. Close to another 7000 regional pilots that fish down another stream or dont play at all.
thats roughly 24000 pilots that could support a union with only one goal. and that goal certainly isn't playing stepchild whilst the union focuses its attentions towards our brothers/sisters at FedEx, Delta, and United because they're the bread winners in the fam.
i count close to 17000 regional pilots that currently pay dues to ALPA. Close to another 7000 regional pilots that fish down another stream or dont play at all.
thats roughly 24000 pilots that could support a union with only one goal. and that goal certainly isn't playing stepchild whilst the union focuses its attentions towards our brothers/sisters at FedEx, Delta, and United because they're the bread winners in the fam.
02-22-2009, 12:47 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 328
Originally Posted by TurboFan
If you're going to tell a joke, at least make it funny.
is RALPA that crazy?
i count close to 17000 regional pilots that currently pay dues to ALPA. Close to another 7000 regional pilots that fish down another stream or dont play at all.
thats roughly 24000 pilots that could support a union with only one goal. and that goal certainly isn't playing stepchild whilst the union focuses its attentions towards our brothers/sisters at FedEx, Delta, and United because they're the bread winners in the fam.
i count close to 17000 regional pilots that currently pay dues to ALPA. Close to another 7000 regional pilots that fish down another stream or dont play at all.
thats roughly 24000 pilots that could support a union with only one goal. and that goal certainly isn't playing stepchild whilst the union focuses its attentions towards our brothers/sisters at FedEx, Delta, and United because they're the bread winners in the fam.
Look I'm just playing devil's advocate here since I no longer have a dog in this fight. One minute you sound like you want to get rid of the regionals and then you sound like all you want to do is make them more like mainline. That was the point of my tongue in cheek response about putting yourself out of a job.
02-22-2009, 05:58 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 384
Tzadik I give you an "A" for effort. But realistically nothing is going to change. Seriously, there is alot of coolaid being drunk by everyone out there. Some are truly happy flying whatever is happening so there is no way your going to convince those to make a go at improving things. I'm sure there are many people that can sympathize with the goal of improving the regionals, but I just don't see a large number of the pilot group giving up their jobs to improve the conditions as a whole. Getting the "blue-flu" like the police would help get the publics attention, if even for a day... Never gonna happen though!
02-22-2009, 06:47 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 711
Originally Posted by shadyops
When people told that to Jefferson, Ghandi, MLK, the Giants (last year), do you think that stopped. Offer support NOT negativity.
Great thread!
02-22-2009, 07:35 AM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: FO CRJ-200
Posts: 75
Some First Officers in our industry literally qualify for food stamps while their CEO's are busy packing their golden parachutes. No matter how you argue it, that is wrong!
SADDLY, I am one of them on food stamps, medical assistance, and child care. A wife in school, two year old to feed, I expected some initial pay concerns entering into this field but WHAT A SLAP IN THE FACE to get here and find there is no change in site to quality of life. Our case worker for assistance told me she has a 17 yo son that makes more than I do; she was astounded. I would be happy to take a pay increase at Mc D's for a year if it would change things for the better (what a sad statement). I am ashamed. I could write a book about what I have gone through to get here and how I feel about the whole situation. I will save your time and just sum it up to say WHAT A SLAP IN THE FACE!
SADDLY, I am one of them on food stamps, medical assistance, and child care. A wife in school, two year old to feed, I expected some initial pay concerns entering into this field but WHAT A SLAP IN THE FACE to get here and find there is no change in site to quality of life. Our case worker for assistance told me she has a 17 yo son that makes more than I do; she was astounded. I would be happy to take a pay increase at Mc D's for a year if it would change things for the better (what a sad statement). I am ashamed. I could write a book about what I have gone through to get here and how I feel about the whole situation. I will save your time and just sum it up to say WHAT A SLAP IN THE FACE!
02-22-2009, 07:38 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 384
Seriously good luck on it fellas. The industry needs people willing to shout about whats happening. But are there realistically enough people willing to give up their jobs to go sit at home? Look at the pain it is to get ALPA or any other teamsters on property at any airline. Too many pilots believe that paying dues, unionization and organization is an experiment in socialism. Its a "me" industry. Realistically there are just too many newbies who are willing to pay(ie, PFT, gulfstream) or work for even less for the seat you are willing to vacate. And the company knows it. That's just the honest truth.
I came to the conclusion, if you want to have more money, QOL and stability find another career. But if the sacrifice is worth it and your happy with the way things are in aviation then stay with the industry. Because it will not change. Heck even Capt. Sully said it. We are going on decades of decay with no gain in site...
Your right though, its better than doing nothing at all. Good luck.
I came to the conclusion, if you want to have more money, QOL and stability find another career. But if the sacrifice is worth it and your happy with the way things are in aviation then stay with the industry. Because it will not change. Heck even Capt. Sully said it. We are going on decades of decay with no gain in site...
Your right though, its better than doing nothing at all. Good luck.
