Originally Posted by tzadik

Seeing as the last 4-5 fatal accidents in the US were regional’s…

• Colgan – undetermined (potentially icing and lack of icing recognition/recovery training)
• Comair – fatigue, bad crm, checklist procedures
• Corporate Airways – fatigue, bad crm, checklist procedures
• Air Midwest - maintenance

(you could count Pinnacle even though it was a ferry)

It’s not gonna take long before some chucklehead at the associated press puts two and two together and figures out this common thread. Right or wrong the assumption is going to be made that experience/sully = miracle on Hudson. Not so much experience/regional bob = the above. If done right we could take advantage of the media firestorm.

I think 60 minutes might be interested in doing a little special about working conditions at our esteemed carriers. We all know the flying public thinks we're living high on the hog, hell my own best friends thought I was making $80,000 (well I do, every 3 years). A little a media attention and public outrage would go a long way in our fight against the man. Hit john q public with a little john stossel reporting about our lack of training (icing) lack of sleep (reduced rest) lack of pay (less than a bus driver) and all the associated conditions that directly affect performance.

When the flying public gets on a CRJ/ERJ that says United on it, they have little clue we aren’t United pilots and almost zero clue that they’re flying on Skywest, Mesa, GoJets, TSA, Shuttle America, etc... If they knew about the substandard training, maintenance, and potentially unsafe QOL of the pilots (that’s associated with regional carriers) there could be serious hell to pay. If it was only known how cheaply, substandard, and barely reaching FARs a good majority of these companies are run... oh man! And how jackass' like JO are livin the highlife while the foot soldiers that are responsible for hundreds of thousands of lives are palming first class boxes and bottles of water from the plane so they can eat. dude, chaos!!!

I truly believe organizations such as ALPA and RAA primarily exist just to feed themselves. Yeah, ALPA helps us but in the end do they really care about the regionals? Look no further than our awesome quality of life for that answer. What I see on these forums are more than just pilots. I see economic and business gurus, graphic designers, web designers, public relations personalities, and people with heart that truly care… absolutely everything that one needs to go grass roots.

When that waste of space marion blakey sabotaged the QOL and pay for the controllers they launched the Fair FAA and Fly US Safe campaigns and from what I’ve heard they have been quite successful. The total eradication of the BS two tiered pay scale system is on the horizon. Granted a lot of this was financed by NATCA, which in my humble opinion is a lot stronger union. Perhaps some pressure needs to be placed on ours as ALPA is wayyy outta touch with our regional reality.

I see websites, media attention, flight cases with Che Guevara’esk stickers (sub che for a dude in a pilot’s uniform). Maybe I’m crazy but if we even put half the attention that we give *****ing and blaming on these forums into fighting the man we could really make a change.

I even see it as a way to honor our brothers and sisters at Colgan, Comair, etc…

I'm naive, Blast away…

Originally Posted by TurboFan

First off, awesome post and well said. I couldn't agree more. Once upon a time somewhere in the flight levels I was told a true story about how a Pilot (who happened to be the one telling the story) and his Anesthesiologist buddy were talking. When the pilot (a long-time captain at a regional airline) mentioned his pay the Anesthesiologist was blown away. The Anesthesiologist commented on how his job was similar in the fact that it is highly automated, fairly routine and the operator really only gets to show his skill if something goes wrong. He also commented that he only held the life of a couple human beings in his hand on a daily basis whilst the Pilot can hold literally hundreds in his. Yet the Anesthesiologist was making well over $100,000 more a year than the Pilot. This is in essence what I think is wrong with the airline industry. Why is there such a discrepancy here?

WE ARE UNDERPAID!

Don't even get me started on the strength of our union. I am a proud ALPA member, however, I think that the current conditions in our industry (both regional and mainline) prove how weak we've become. We have allowed CEO's and shareholders to walk their way to their G5's and multi-million dollar mansions on OUR backs! Some First Officers in our industry literally qualify for food stamps while their CEO's are busy packing their golden parachutes. No matter how you argue it, that is wrong!

Another enemy for pilots is the FAA. They are completely in cahoots with the airlines. A good example of this is the NTSB's Most Wanted list. For years one of the #1 items has been "Reduce Accidents and Incidents Caused by Human Fatigue - Set working hour limits for flight crews, aviation mechanics and air traffic controllers based on fatigue research, circadian rhythms, and sleep and rest requirements." Yet at many regionals we are still routinely given schedules where reduced rest is scheduled! The NTSB has been trying to persuade the FAA to change it's rules regarding crew rest and scheduling for years, yet the FAA refuses to do so. Why? I thought they were looking out for us and the safety of our passengers? Or could it be that doing so would potentially cause the airlines to hire more crews in order to deal with rest issues which would in turn cost more money... Hmm. I'm sure the FAA has a perfectly good reason reason why they wouldn't make changes that would increase safety . Just look at the Comair accident. Directly attributed to both pilot and controller fatigue. The only reason the FAA doesn't make changes to crew rest and duty requirements is because the airlines lobby Washington so hard that no one has the guts to risk losing funding for their next election. I guess 49 lives is a small price to pay to make sure you get that few extra bucks for a few more TV ads next election season.

Seriously guys this industry is in a sad, sad state. The underground, grass-roots movement that Tzadik suggests is just what we need to start attempting to make some actual change around here. It's obvious ALPA and the other pilot unions are moving at a snails pace if at all on these issues. I really feel that if the public knew exactly what was going on out there, they would force change. We all know the only thing that matters to the people that control our lives is $money$. You start messing with that, and things will change, guaranteed. I'm not sure how to do it, but this thread can be a place for ideas to come together.

We all know things need to change. Let's stand as one and start to force that change!

Originally Posted by tzadik

Seeing as the last 4-5 fatal accidents in the US were regional’s…

• Colgan – undetermined (potentially icing and lack of icing recognition/recovery training)
• Comair – fatigue, bad crm, checklist procedures
• Corporate Airways – fatigue, bad crm, checklist procedures
• Air Midwest - maintenance

(you could count Pinnacle even though it was a ferry)

It’s not gonna take long before some chucklehead at the associated press puts two and two together and figures out this common thread. Right or wrong the assumption is going to be made that experience/sully = miracle on Hudson. Not so much experience/regional bob = the above. If done right we could take advantage of the media firestorm.

I think 60 minutes might be interested in doing a little special about working conditions at our esteemed carriers. We all know the flying public thinks we're living high on the hog, hell my own best friends thought I was making $80,000 (well I do, every 3 years). A little a media attention and public outrage would go a long way in our fight against the man. Hit john q public with a little john stossel reporting about our lack of training (icing) lack of sleep (reduced rest) lack of pay (less than a bus driver) and all the associated conditions that directly affect performance.

When the flying public gets on a CRJ/ERJ that says United on it, they have little clue we aren’t United pilots and almost zero clue that they’re flying on Skywest, Mesa, GoJets, TSA, Shuttle America, etc... If they knew about the substandard training, maintenance, and potentially unsafe QOL of the pilots (that’s associated with regional carriers) there could be serious hell to pay. If it was only known how cheaply, substandard, and barely reaching FARs a good majority of these companies are run... oh man! And how jackass' like JO are livin the highlife while the foot soldiers that are responsible for hundreds of thousands of lives are palming first class boxes and bottles of water from the plane so they can eat. dude, chaos!!!

I truly believe organizations such as ALPA and RAA primarily exist just to feed themselves. Yeah, ALPA helps us but in the end do they really care about the regionals? Look no further than our awesome quality of life for that answer. What I see on these forums are more than just pilots. I see economic and business gurus, graphic designers, web designers, public relations personalities, and people with heart that truly care… absolutely everything that one needs to go grass roots.

When that waste of space marion blakey sabotaged the QOL and pay for the controllers they launched the Fair FAA and Fly US Safe campaigns and from what I’ve heard they have been quite successful. The total eradication of the BS two tiered pay scale system is on the horizon. Granted a lot of this was financed by NATCA, which in my humble opinion is a lot stronger union. Perhaps some pressure needs to be placed on ours as ALPA is wayyy outta touch with our regional reality.

I see websites, media attention, flight cases with Che Guevara’esk stickers (sub che for a dude in a pilot’s uniform). Maybe I’m crazy but if we even put half the attention that we give *****ing and blaming on these forums into fighting the man we could really make a change.

I even see it as a way to honor our brothers and sisters at Colgan, Comair, etc…

I'm naive, Blast away…

Originally Posted by eaglefly

Years ago, ALPA jumped on their bandwagon with the concept of "One level of safety" which sounded good, but alas, the forces mentioned above required too much effort and MONEY on their part to REALLY make a difference.

Sadly, the only REAL chance for change will come from the one entity that can force it....................the travelling public (customers). Until enogh body parts are produced to scare them away from perceived areas of unsafety, profit will rule and those that share in it will continue to benefit at others expense...................primarily ours.

Originally Posted by 4jobs

ALPA is a complete joke. I have been giving them $30 per week for the last six years, for what. I work for 9E, almost five years with no contract. ALPA's is more concerned with helping Mainline, we are just a small revenue stream who they could care less about. We should all tell ALPA to start representing us, or to stick it were the sun doesn't shine.

Oh ya, then they have the nerve to ask us to give to ALPA PAC. What a joke

Originally Posted by flight0813

SADDLY, I am one of them on food stamps, medical assistance, and child care. A wife in school, two year old to feed, I expected some initial pay concerns entering into this field but WHAT A SLAP IN THE FACE to get here and find there is no change in site to quality of life. Our case worker for assistance told me she has a 17 yo son that makes more than I do; she was astounded. I would be happy to take a pay increase at Mc D's for a year if it would change things for the better (what a sad statement). I am ashamed. I could write a book about what I have gone through to get here and how I feel about the whole situation. I will save your time and just sum it up to say WHAT A SLAP IN THE FACE!

Originally Posted by JungleBus

Sounds to me like that's what he's proposing: a PR campaign to educate the traveling public on how their safety is being compromised in the pursuit of the almighty dollar. When the masses know what an RJ is and who flies it and how, and they begin to show a strong dislike of them (ie booking away from them even when the ticket costs more), that's when they'll go away and you'll see jobs go back to mainline. Right now it's popular to say that passengers only care about money and will book a ticket on any airline that offers it for $5 less...but that's because they (wrongly, imho) assume there is one level of safety.

Originally Posted by JungleBus

Sounds to me like that's what he's proposing: a PR campaign to educate the traveling public on how their safety is being compromised in the pursuit of the almighty dollar. When the masses know what an RJ is and who flies it and how, and they begin to show a strong dislike of them (ie booking away from them even when the ticket costs more), that's when they'll go away and you'll see jobs go back to mainline. Right now it's popular to say that passengers only care about money and will book a ticket on any airline that offers it for $5 less...but that's because they (wrongly, imho) assume there is one level of safety.

Originally Posted by tzadik