Originally Posted by willflyforcash

Its because of one phrase: "Stepping stone".

Regionals were notoriously just a stepping stone and often pilot groups were very junior (continuously rotating through) thus union strength being weak.

The moral of the story is junior guys, get involved with your union because you never know how long you will be at your current carrier.

Originally Posted by ebl14

The main question that comes to my mind about all of this is: How have the regioinals ended up with such poor working conditions compared to the major airlines. Granted, the way major airlines working conditions have regressed since deregulation, they are more likely going to meet with the regionals work rules than seeing the regionals improve that much. But, that being said, how come they are still so much better right now? Is it the fact that the older guys just end up calling in fatigued, or sick when they work a 14 hour duty day, reduced rest and another 14 hour duty day? Or were our roots as commuter airlines actually worse than now and we have already made improvements? Is it a lack or spine? Is it a lack of unity? Is it a lack of bargaining power? If you know why feel free to share...

Originally Posted by NuGuy

Heyas,

You guys are begging for the kind of attention you DON'T want.

The Colgan accident (RIP) is an example of something bad, that could be made MUCH worse by slightly different circumstances. Something like this is horrific for the people involved, but the reverberations can be endless, and can turn into an industry nightmare by just the wrong kind of media attention.

Let's say Trans Terran Express is running late one day. The crew is at the maximum FAA duty day. Weather is iffy. Crew is qualified, but relatively inexperienced. Also, one the passengers is Fatty McFatfat, a VERY popular politician, who happens to be flying TTE today because he's keeping a low profile after the bank bailouts and is trying to be an "everyman", and flying corporate looks bad at the moment.

Something happens on approach to East Butthole Regional Airport, and the Bugsmasher 2000 goes down into a crowded Cravemart, with many deaths and x10 injuries. Press picks up on it, and terrible pictures of the Trans Terran logo on the one remaining piece of the aircraft amongst the ruin of the Cravemart is run, and re-run 24 hours a day for days on end.

Because McFatfat is a VERY popular guy, our earnest reporters from the always accurate media run with the story and come to the conclusion that "HEY, JUST BECAUSE YOU BUY A TICKET ON TRANS TERRAN, THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU RIDE ON TRANS TERRAN, EVEN THOUGH THE LOGO IS THE SAME AND CARRIERS A TG CODE!!!". Now the wild accusations start, and the rectal exam/cavity search of the entire industry, as well as the whole concept of codesharing begins.

Lots of dirty linen comes to light. Borderline scheduling practices (min rest, max duty days, reduced rest overnights, etc etc), questionable hiring practices, iffy maintenence and training, and, of course, the crappy pay. It doesn't help that TTEs CEO is under investigation by the SEC for possible securities fraud. The malestrom of accusations rock back and forth, multiplying upon themselves. Because McFatfat was really popular, his buds in congress bring the whole idea of codeshareing before a congressional committee for "truth in advertising" (seeing as Trans Terran itself has a relatively decent record).

But because times are tough, a few LCCs, who don't do any codesharing, figure out which way the wind is blowing, and start advertising that "if you buy a ticket on Big Tail Airways , you always fly on Big Tail Airways (who's motto has been "fly us, and get a piece of tail!"). Because of the media frenzy, the other airlines see a huge amount of booking away from the carriers, because the public DOESN'T KNOW or DOESN'T CARE to figure out who is flying what. They just want to be told "NOPE, WE DON'T FLY BUGSMASHERS".

Now the Greek Tragedy that has been the "regional industry" comes crashing down. Petrified of further PR blunders, the major carriers reign in codeshares. Congress passes legislation barring the use of one airline's code on another and using "deceptive marketing practices", such as similar aircraft liveries. The FAA (minus the ex-administrator, who "took one for the team" for making the President look bad), fresh from it's media cornholing, rewrites FAR 121 to require BOTH pilots to have ATP certificates. In two years, the only "regional" airlines left are those in nitch markets...island hopping or EAS.

You may cry "ahh, Nu, you are full of it...those facts aren't anywhere near accurate. This can't happen." But I remind you, once the press gets a hold of a "story" or a "angle", it won't matter what the causal factors of the original accident were. I point you to the Everglades Valujet accident, whose circumstances had NOTHING TO DO with the crew.

Nu

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

I've come to the conclusion, probably misinformed, that aviation unions are pretty far out of touch with what you are doing in the regional world as far as duty times, length of legs, and well, everything, in that the current "regional" comes close or even surpasses the "major" airline in a lot of ways nowadays. What is the real difference except for size of aircraft?

Specifically, my question is this, has the union system locked in place and kept enforcing the idea of a progression from regional to major as far as that (moving to a major) being the ultimate reward, and in the process neglected the long term, or even short term regional pilot?

Perhaps a better approach to the future would be to focus on where one is, rather than the idea of finally "making the big time" at a major or UPS or Fedex and trying to make sure (somehow) that one's union would pursue that goal of looking out for "regional" pilots the same as "major" pilots?