wwings

hehe........

HercDriver130

Saab... i agree with just about everything you are saying here.... but lets look at one aspect that has been lost in this discussion. Your GF... she makes 150k because she busts her ass... if she is like the reps I know... she draws a salary... and commissions on sales..... if she DOESNT bust her ass... her salary drops... its easy for mgt to know who is doing a good job and who isnt. In our profession... frankly we are paid on seniority...not how good a pilot you are ...not on you knowledge or lack there of...... straight up seniority. The longer you are there ...the more you make... not necessarily so at your GF's job. MGT has no incentive to raise pay for several reasons.....all of which we have discussed... but the 800 pound monkey out there is that they all so know that the every CA in the company is just like every other CA...... the only carrot they dangle is bigger aircraft and longevity. Is it any wonder that historically senior guys have sold the junior guys down the river...no. You are worth what you contract says you are worth. Personally I think if the avg regional type capt made 100k per year that would be about right. So of those guys will move on to make more at bigger carriers... others will choose not to. I suspect the avg regional CA today makes 50-65K ....certainly some make more than that...... but I think 80 for a junior CA and 100 for a more senior CA would be about right. FO pay should be about 60% of CA pay in my perfect world. But what do i know .... I am just a former 121 guy ... who is currently laid off from his corporate gig. Good luck to all.

SkyHigh

The airlines love open time, trip trading high production guys. Pilots who maximize every opportunity to squeeze another trip into their month. It helps the company to drop almost a third to half the costs of adding another pilot to the line.

Management purposely creates an environment that fosters opportunities for its pilots to sell their vacations, holidays and as many days off as they can. The more pilots who do that the fewer benefits and salaries they have to pay by adding pilots to the list.

The only incentive that the company has is to create more open time and hire more pilots who are willing to cheaply sell their lives to the company.

Skyhigh

LodyDivots

I posted that, with tongue in cheak- at least, partially. The way many of you talk, flying for an airline, is a poverty stricken job. Then, many of you, in turn, put down the new guys, as part of the problem, and accuse them of having, "shiny jet syndrome", and their willingness to fly "mainline" aircraft, for "peanuts". My point, simply, was that it might be cool, for a second, to put the uniform on, and tell people you fly a jet, and I certainly do not have a problem with people having that moment, as someone else said, but if pay, and everything else is so bad- like many of you make it out to be, how long will that moment last, before reality sets in? Or, are things no quite so bad, but people just like to complain, hence, my asking you all to, "tell me", what is acceptable.

There is nothing wrong with trying to improve things. I hope I didn't imply that.

quote]
You are right. BUT, many people out there, in various careers, have people who make more than them, in careers that may be of less importance, in that person's mind. Is it fair that your fiance makes more than a nurse? A nurse doesn't typically make $150K, yet has to, like a pilot, maintain a license, go through school, and training, and they are working to save people's lives, along side the doctor. A nurse, typically, makes no more than one of your captains, I'd be willing to bet.

I don't say that to say you, and other pilots, shouldn't fight to improve things, and get a better contract. By all means, that is your right, and NOBODY should settle.
According to the ALPA website, the average 5th year captain at a regional airline, operating RJs, makes just over $70K per year. I'd imagine that is near six figure, for a much more senior guy.
If my math is correct, if you can make $50K per year, at $34.46, than at $65 per hour, with the same amount of flying, you would make over $90K per year. The question becomes- should you have to do all of that extra flying, to make that? I assume you are a 2nd-3rd year Fist Officer. How much flying are you having to do, in order to make that?

LodyDivots

Just a FYI, for you Republic pilots. If my math is correct, I just divided the $40-Million by the total number of pilots, flying for Republic, which is 2,112, according to this website. The numbers are as follows;

$18,939.39 per pilot.

At a minimum guarantee of 75 hours per month, that comes to roughly;

$21 per hour, per pilot. Keep those numbers in mind, as you guys continue your contract negotiations. I'm sure many of you would be happy to receive half of that- an extra $10 per hour.

HercDriver130

Not to beat a dead horse.. but that 40 mill... is presumably a one time ( 2nd in this case ) infusion of cash. Raised pay is forever... so your example above only works if they take half of their profits each year and roll it into salaries..... now as a pilot I say YES... as an investor.... thats not so appealing.

IMHO

This is why half of the legacy carriers liquidated and the other half have filed chapt 11 multiple times. We all agree that pilots, and everybody else that works hard to keep a company afloat should make decent wages that reflect the skill level of the job. But are you honestly suggesting that a company, airline or other, should spread out every extra penny they have in excess amoungst the employees? Thats crazy. One word for you...PROFIT. Airlines are in the business of making money, not breaking even. Should RAH pilots recieve a pay increase as a part of their next contract neg? Most certainly. However, attacking RAH for using their profits to secure new business ventures and secure old business partners is odd. It was BB who put RAH in the position to have all this extra cash you want him to spread around the pilot group. Yet you all decry his business model. Now if there was real conviction about BB and his business practices, nobody on here should be lobbying the RAH pilots to seek better pay using the so called "blood money" that RAH has amassed at the "expense" as you all put it, of YX pilots, UA Pilots, DL pilots, and the whole regional industry.

LodyDivots

True, but it proves that the airlines can afford to gives these pilots raises. I've wondered, in the past, whether the airlines can truly afford to pay pilots, what pilots want. When you consider that Republic can give $40-million to another airline, and also, when you consider executive bonuses, which are often times, well into the millions, and occur, each year, it is probably VERY realistic, that these regionals could AT LEAST, give ALL pilots a $5 per hour raise, if not more.

At current rates, that would mean a 2nd year FO, at Republic, would go from $31 to $36 per hour. A 3rd year FO would go from $36 to $41 per hour.

A 5th year captain, on the E145, would go from $67 to $72 per hour, and a 10th year captain, on the E145, would go from $78 to $83 per hour, and so on.

That simple raise, which will not be a major cost, to the airline, in the grand scheme, could bring wages to a level that many find more appropriate.

LodyDivots

I'm not suggesting that ALL of the money go to paying pilots. The point was that it shows that pay CAN improve, and not break the airlines.

HercDriver130

It doesnt prove anything... all it proves is if you have 40 million this and every year you could do what you suggest......

The airlines CAN afford to pay more... the question is how much and how much is sustainable over a long period of time. In todays climate... with little or no turnover.... the payroll at these carriers is increasing every year. In the past they had such turnover that payroll probably stayed mostly flat ... mainly because expensive senior ca's left for greener pastures and were replaced by cheaper less senior ca's....thats not happening now....