Actually I kind of apologize, I did not read your other posts and so I edited the message you quoted.

 

I respect your opinion though.

 

How it started: Graduates of military academies had a four-year degree, so other officers needed one too. Military fixed-wing pilot training was mostly limited to officers, so almost all the military pilots had degrees (and these days, having "only" a bachelors degree may raise eyebrows at some promotion boards). The airlines used to hire almost exclusively from the military, so any civilian applicants needed a degree to be competitive. Those who did the hiring, of course, had degrees themselves. Perhaps the rationale has been that a degree helps with the non-flying aspects of the job, and that's just become "conventional wisdom". In any event, applicants have little choice but to show up with the credentials the companies want.

 

True, but if I was the one doing the hiring, I would much rather take someone that has work experience in many different fields over some kid with a newly minted college degree... I'd be willing to bet that option A would handle those non-flying aspects of the job much more professionally than a new grad with little to no work experience outside of school. It's this "conventional wisdom" that needs challenged sometimes. It's where I focus wayyy too much of my energy. That is if you haven't noticed

I see it all of the time with these interns or new grads getting hired at my office (well not anymore since the economy). They come in there all arrogant with this entitlement mentality because they went to whatever big name university... Then when it comes down to it they don't know anything about anything. I think respect needs to be earned through life experience and true knowledge of the world around you... Not some Latin piece of paper with your name printed on it. Maybe my train of thought is even more "conventional" than modern conventionalism when you think about it... =)

 

It wasn't until recently that the airlines were hiring "kids" who were fresh out of college.

It's not that a college degree suddenly makes an expert in any particular field.. it is a function of how much work you put into learning, and subsequent experience.

What many college degrees do is expose you to a variety of subjects and disciplines. Yes there are those who spend their time with beer, bongs, and parties.. but they weren't going to make much of themselves anyways.

When I read some of the posts on these forums it's amazing how things as simple as basic grammar seem beyond them. I fly with pilots who continue to buck basic math skills, despite the fact that we work with numbers every day.

Now is this a function of not going to college? Some of the most intelligent people I have met do not have a degree... however they are constantly educating themselves. Some of the greatest leaders and thinkers in history didn't just focus on one area of expertise, but strived to be knowledgeable in many areas.

That is really the point... when was the last time you read a historical book rather than a Maxim? Do you continue to learn more and more about aerodynamics, engine theory, industry news... or do you pull out a Sodoku?

We all have a license and ratings that qualify us to do what we do.. but if we want to continue to be treated like professionals, we must work to present ourselves as such.

Never miss an opportunity to better yourself through education, where ever you may get it...

 

Richest guy in the world dropped out of college.

 

Great points! Education usually can come from anywhere as long as you are willing to find it.

Most of our less educated (in the real world) society assumes that anyone without this piece of paper is less 'educated'. It's like the schools marketing departments programmed them to think that way.

It's kind of like going thru a maze. You can take the long way and get there and get more credit for it from society or the hiring departments just because you took the same trail they did... Or you can find an alternate way, whether it be climbing over the top or finding a more efficient route... This way is not necessarily more or less intelligent, but it also might not always get credit because those who went thru the motions are ****ed off that someone found a way to be as smart or smarter than they are without going thru all of the same motions they did.

I'm not suggesting shortcuts... Just alternate paths. Society should be more open minded to respecting those who gain their knowledge in alternate ways.

 

Dan....WHOA!

We live in a society of credentials. What really matters is knowing what you have to know. However, in this society, we've mocked up a system where our merit is based (in part) on what letters are after our name or what framed papers are hanging on the wall.

There are points I agree with you. College for the sake of college is of questionable value. Some degrees (aviation, management, communications, etc) are of little to no value. Others (engineering, accounting, law, physics, chemistry, etc) are of significant value.

That aside, however, in a society that reveres credentials and certificates, you've got to get some to even be looked at - to be in agreement with the society.

You just have to play the game. Bill Gates (as referred to earlier) went out and created his own world where it didn't matter. He ran the show.

Accordingly, if you want to create an airline yourself, you probably won't need a degree to do it. But if you want to stand out in a sea of stripes, you've got to play the game.

It sucks, but it is the way it is.

 

After 10 years at a regional and now at a major, without question there is a difference between those that have and those that do not have a degree for the most part. (Just an opinion) but the degree shows commitment and the desire to stick with something because it is hard. It took me 6 years for a 4 year degree at SJSU working full time college and flying. It is just what it took.

The barrier to entry to be a military pilot is greater than to be a commercial pilot (ie. civillian background) on the entry level. As a career progresses I believe the civilian military difference is moot in most cases. But lets look at the facts. Minimum time, minimum regulation standards, and airlines that don't expect anything over minimum requirements and only train to them because it is the carrot for minimally qualified pilots to get entry level positions at minimum pay. Management always says after an accident we train to FAA standards yet in a majority of cases it was minimal judgment that a crew was faced with (again, not all but lets be honest). I believe a lot of pilots work very hard to get the first entry level position, but many stop at that point kick their feet up, ***** about being paid to learn something new, because the company requires it. Look at how many pilots study the minimum 6% of total aeronautical knowledge required for the p.c. check because again we test minimum standards and cram for even that. Again not everyone but I am sure we have all seen that or have been guilty of that.

Does a degree mean you should be paid more? In the outside world it is true in flying it is not. Maybe it should be. Besides, do whatever it takes because flying is never going to be and end all job. The degree is much more than a pig skin, it says a lot about the individual.....

I am not writing to flame anyone, I have no personal knowledge of anyone on here that does not have a 4 year degree. I just have an opinion and I am happy to be at an airline that uses that criteria and grills applicants about their educational background, it just makes for a better educated and committed workforce.

 

There is a lot more to college than what you learn in the classroom. It is a transitional period for many people from high school and a life at home with their parents to the real world with a much greater amount of personal responsibility. In college you learn to prioritize with limited time and resources and those lessons are often of much greater value than anything that can be taught in the classroom. I would say that 99% of those who argue that the requirement for a college degree in the aviation field is not necessary are pilot's who aren't college educated and want to justify why they should be hired at the highest level of the industry. You may think it is just an expensive piece of paper but it proves that you were able to begin and complete a set of coursework while balancing the rest of your life. Honestly, it is usually pretty obvious when I fly with someone who isn't college educated, although it happens very rarely for a reason. NO OFFENSE, but go finish up school.