Isn't it still;
If a degree is required for your job, then you are a professional.
If not, you can only act professional.
Most majors app's say College degree required, but didn't a few say preferred?
I have a BS degree. I have a friend that was hired by AA with no HS diploma. They postponed his class date until he finished his GED. He was in night school working on his GED when hired by AA. He's an intelligent guy.

 

OK. So let me get this straight. You're telling me that not only did I pay for flight school (which by the way is continuing education), got out, and got a job that doesn't pay my student loan bills, but in addition to that I should have gotten a degree in Underwater Basketweaving because, after all, then I could be a professional Underwater Basketweaver! The problem isn't going to school or not going to school - the problem is that companies (and a lot of people) think that by selecting individuals that have a piece of paper they will get higher quality. If that's the case, maybe I should look into one of those emails I keep getting about buying some bogus degree. I understand that companies need to weed out candidates. There are other methods. Basing whether you will even offer an interview to someone on whether they have a degree or not is discrimination, pure and simple. Period. I know plenty of people that got grants and scholarships for college, who had no personal investment in school. When they got out, they didn't have any bills to pay, so why should they care if they partied for the duration? I, on the other hand, got every drop of value out of flight school because I knew I'd be paying for it for a looooong time.

 

If only I had like 50 extra thousand.

 

Wow you have some flawed logic. Flight schools alone are just a tech school right up there with ITT tech or cosmetology school. It amazes me that you call it discrimination if an employer requires a degree. Good luck holding that up in court. Employers should always be able to hire the most qualified and educated applicants. I am assuming you are a furloughed pilot. Comair? If so go back to school and get a real degree not basket weaving but something you find interesting and will help you when your are fourloughed again further down the road. There are a lot of great loans, grants and scholarships you can receive. You can argue the merits of a degree until you're red in the face but without one you are limiting yourself to regional or 135 operations the rest of you career.

 

I think you have a good point here. Prospective employers could thoroughly test applicants' knowledge/skill and investigate their past work, but they don't want to spend the time and effort it would take. Demanding a degree or certificate is a convenient shortcut, and provides some "cover" for the hiring decision. Mid-level managers (who usually do the hiring at large companies) love to protect themselves with a paper trail, and fear being criticized for bad judgment.

 

Dear wheresmyplane,

Wow! Where do you even start with this? Let me start first by saying this whole post wreaks of entitlement. You act as if your owed something. Here's a news flash, your not, and neither are the rest of us.

So you went to flight school, great! You got a job flying for a regional, terrific! Why not be grateful for the opportunities you have been given so far. I know guys who in the mid 90's had 4000 TT, a BS degree, and a masters before they had the opportunity to fly right seat for a regional.

You talk as if because you went to flight school, your entitled to work for whom ever, and when ever. Thats like saying everyone who graduates from college is entitled to do the same. I think we can all agree that's a ridiculous notion.

The simple fact is that most flight training is barely more complex than vocational training. Don't attempt to try and compare flight school training with getting a college education, because they are completely different. Ironically, it's not these differences that prevent you from getting the job, it's your attitude. The attitude that says "I've done enough, give me what is mine!" verses the attitude that says " I'm constantly trying to improve myself!".

Better yet, ask yourself "Why would I not get a college education?" It would only seem to improve your chances at a job you seem to really want. It would seem to help you start a new profession if god forbid you couldn't fly anymore. It would seem to make you more marketable among your peers who don't have a college education. Why Not?

Airlines don't care about what it means for a person to have college degree. Airlines care about what it means for a person to not want a college degree! What do you communicate to your prespective employer when you dont seek collegiate education? How do you answer this interview question "Why did you never go to college?" It's safe to say there is no good answer to that one.

The majors are looking for the brightest and most motivated individuals. The degree is an initial litmus test designed to identify a group whose individuals may exibit these characteristics. It's not like they ask you in the interview if you have a college degree, and then hand you the keys to the plane. It's slightly more indepth than that. Who knows you might end up getting your degree, get the interview, and not get the job. At least you can walk away with your head held high instead of complaining for the rest of your life about how you were cheated.

This is why you should research your desired occupation before you chose it. Not completely your fault since I imagine some where down the line someone sold you on straight to the airlines, quick upgrade etc. happens to the best of us.

My "piece of paper" as you call it took me 4 years as a full time student to obtain. The paper wont get me the job, it's the dedication, determination, and discipline that it stands for that will. You may have those traits as well, but good luck proveing it.

Now that would be "just" a piece of paper.

This is almost as ridiculous as spending your way out of recession. Good luck. I'm sure this positive attitude will take you far.


Your right, why should they care, but more importantly why do you care. You sound very jelous and bitter? Let it go, it will only slow you down.

This statment only serves to convince us that your a top notch kind of person. Take it a step further and get that degree.

Please don't think I wrote this to tear you down. I don't think I'm smarter than you and I'm not trying to agitate you. I'm trying to make you see that only good can come from going to college. I've never heard anyone ever say "Man, I wish I had never gone to college". Get it done. We'll be here waiting.

Sincerely,

Johnnysnow

 

To respond to the above - I don't think it's a waste of time to go to college. I think that if you need college to learn what you're going to to for a career, then go right ahead. To say that you need to have a degree so that it looks good on your resume - whether you ever use what you learned - doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You go to school to learn what you need to get a job so you can support yourself and a family. That's it. You don't need 4 years of college to "find yourself" or to be a better pilot. I don't know many people that are better pilots because they went to school for say, criminal justice or psychology. I DID look into the industry, which is why I decided it was not justifiable to spend four years and a boatload of money on something I'd never use just to impress somone. As far as anyone thinking that I have an entitlement problem, I don't. I don't think that because I went to flight school I should get the world. I'd be perfectly happy instructing if it'd pay the bills for any length of time. If you're going to say that I think I'm entitled, you might as well say the same thing to everyone on this forum that thinks they deserve good work rules and decent pay. I'm not the only person here who knows we don't get payed what we're worth.

There are a lot of great loans, grants and scholarships you can receive.

The problem with this is that our generation has already financed our future with college loans. If you thought it was bad when people couldn't pay their mortgages anymore, just wait until people can't pay their school loans. The cause is the same: biting off more debt than you can chew. I can get a college loan, spend it on a 4 year degree, get out, and find out that the airline/135 operator/etc. isn't going to pay me any more because I have the degree. The guy with the 4 year degree sitting next to me in basic indoc is making the same amount of money that I am, but he's got more bills. Getting a degree with the hope of getting an interview is like buying a 73 type hoping that Southwest will call. And: This is almost as ridiculous as spending your way out of recession. Grants and scholarships are great if you can get them.

Let me end by saying that I think it is incredibly important to improve yourself and to make it a focus of every day. Learning is invaluable. However I do not need to have a degree to say that I have improved myself. Learn a language, study subjects that interest you, take up a hobby. There are many great things that you can accomplish.

Again, I am not against college. It is not that I would not want a degree if it would benefit me. This is my opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree.

 

Money. Plain and simple. Most of you are missing the point, the reason we are in the recession today IS because of that mentality. Pay later to MAYBE gain later and HOPEFULLY be able to pay that loan back. IMO, the general acceptance that college loans have to be a part of life or you will never be successful is exactly what got us in this recession. Not only did the prices of everything rise because of this mentality, but now the same applies to all aspects of life. Credit cards, Ridiculous Car loans, Mortgages with no down payment. It all falls under the same category. Irresponsibility. Pay later mentality. Spending more than you can afford, and pushing it further and further out of reach for the future generations because of it. If people didn't become so accepting of credit for every damn aspect of life, I bet you everything out there would be 10 times more affordable today.

 

The first part of your statement doesn't jive with the second part.
In the first part - a college education can be considered investment in the future since it has been statistically proven that you can make more money in the long run.
Your second highlighted statement above is just fiscal irresponsibility - and that is present at ALL levels of society and education.

USMCFLYR

 

Listen, I agree that going to college so you can pump up your resume is pretty pointless. Mostly for the reason that the motivating factor is all wrong and your likely to get very little from it. But you missed the point.

It's not the degree that gets you the job, it's your obvious opinion that college has no benefit that PREVENTS you from getting the job. Try answering the "Why didn't you ever go to college?" question with the "Because I saw no benefit." answer. That being said, if the above is how you feel, than don't go to college. However, please don't complain about the way it is, when this has been a requirement for at least the last three decades or longer. No one forced you to work in this profession, you volunteered. If you don't want to play the game by their rules, than you can do one of three things. One, except the obvious limitations on your career; two, find a new profession; or three, try to change the rules (good luck with that)

By the way, when you find that major airline pilot who feels that nothing he learned in college benefits his day to day work, let me know. I want to help him get his money back.