Dan,

With respect to your statement "College is a scam," I must disagree. What you take from higher education (or any education, really) largely depends on what you put into it, and your attitude in the process.

As such, I suggest that if you go to school simply so you can get a better job, or a job in a specific field, the scope of your learning will be rather narrow. This might cause some discontent if you start your new job and find it unsatisfactory, or if you cannot find a job in your new field.

On the other hand, if you go to school to enrich yourself through critical thinking, the improvement of important skills (i.e. verbal, quantitative, reasoning), and interaction with a diverse group of people, you might find the end result a bit more satisfying.

 

What about the millions that just drank and plagiarized their way thru? Don't tell me you think this doesn't happen.

 

Good point about the job and discontentness part...

But again, I've met alot of people from alot of different backgrounds working here... The ones who "Just went to college and never worked" have little to no ability to use reasoning and quantitive logical thinking. They seem much more naive and immature than the people I know who had to work their way thru life... Who knows... Maybe I am the exception to the rule, or maybe they are?

Point is, i don't respect anyone any less or more because they took the so called right track... I respect people based upon their own merits, and don't believe anyone is any less or more intelligent or professional just because they went to a university or whatever... It just seems like most people claim that people who didn't go to college are less professional or intelligent than those who did. Far from true in my opinion.


Some people learn to see this "game" as a waste of time... And rise above it... Not necessarily in financial status either. In my opinion, it is those people who are smarter than the rest.

That takes us back to the Bill Gates thing... I believe this is how he saw it after a few years of trying it.

 

Wonderful response.

College is very much what you put into it. Not only did I get a four year degree that makes me competitive for the job that I ultimately want, I also got the best 4 years of my life.

I made friends I will keep for life and memories that I will cherish forever. I worked hard, partied hard, and would do it again without a thought. I learned a lot (more outside the classroom than in), traveled and got involved with things I thought I never would.

College wasn't a scam at all; it was worth every penny.

 

I agree and disagree with parts of the above. Making blanket assumptions about people based on whether or not they hold a degree, or have military versus all civilian experience is unwise.

"A degree shows commitment and desire to stick with something because it is hard"? It may. It may also be held by an individual that burned through lots of Daddy's money while majoring in beer-bong chugging and date rape.

Military experience? This may indicate the individual possesses the drive to learn complex systems in a short period and has performed demanding flying under very trying circumstances. On the other hand, there are total tools that also have flown in the military. I am thinking of the Colonel who crashed the B52 at Fairchild during airshow practice.

I have enjoyed and learned from the ex-military pilots that I have flown with. However, I feel that as my own experience level increases, I am able to fly and function on the same level that they do.

I do not have a college degree. At the age of 19, I was in the USAF at Travis AFB vectoring and separating military and civil aircraft including C5's, B747's, and DC10's filled with hundreds of people. I was able to do so because I had drive and mental acuity enough to complete demanding training. During 29 years as a controller, I have seen an MIT graduate wash out and a GED holder excell.

A degree is an indicator of drive and dedication? I have demonstrated drive and dedication by obtaining the ACSEL, CFI, CFII, CMEL, and CMEI ratings while working full time as an Air Traffic Controller. Then I gave over 1000 hours of dual instruction and became a Part 141 Chief Flight Instructor.

I retired from the FAA and one month later was in DHC8 ground school. I worked hard and tied for first on the final written exam. I was awarded a very quick upgrade. I worked hard. I struggled in IOE. The dedication, hard work, and patience of instructors and check airmen allowed me to pass my fed ride. Am I a Captain today because I am so awesome? No. I took advantage of every opportunity, worked hard, and worked at being a faithful and diligent team player. My instructors responded by working very hard to help me succeed. I could not have done so without them, but I did so without a degree.

I enjoy and learn from the degree-holding pilots that I fly with. As I gain experience I feel that I am able to fly and function at the same level that they do.

There have been times when Mesa (yes, Mesa) would not hire pilots with less than 3000 hours total and 1000 hours of ME time. There have been times when UAL would hire pilots with wet commercial certificates. Education and experience requirements ebb and flow with the economy.

If I had the time I would love to earn a degree in English or Journalism. Any major hiring that occurs in the near future will probably require a college degree. Therefore, I will probably earn a degree from an online college that will give me the maximum credit for my ratings and experience. Education is never a waste, but I have to speed the time line along as quick as I can. I am not bitter about it, I need the degree on my resume. The important things about me will be the same, with or without a degree.

The Dash Whisperer

 

Wages have not kept up with inflation, however, college tuition has. This is the fundamental problem that has made the modern educational system very weak in my opinion. Obviously, education is very vital to personal development, however, spending more than $20K for a college degree is outrageous. A degree simply highlights a persons abilities; it exposes them to certain environments, and gauges a persons reactions to them. I have a bachelors in engineering, and I assure you, if I were to use any of the methods taught to me in college in the real world, the results would probably be disastrous.

So the question is...how much should someone pay to discover what they are good at? The answer is as little as possible, because paying anymore would be getting scammed. I paid about $20K for my degree and about $10K for all my pilot ratings. I took no student loans, and had no debt to pay off when I finished. I'm still working towards a higher degree.

 

Beautiful response! Spoken from a man of true wisdom.

 

Another great point! The wages and the tuition costs are way out of sync...

I can't believe I didn’t mention this before, but the very field I work in (IT)... Good luck understanding what you are doing with only a degree... It's the kind of thing you need to understand before even going to school for it... Same deal with what you learn in school barely (if at all) applying to what you really need to learn or know to do the job... I also learned more about life from working in a restaurant, auto shop, office environment than most kids know from just going to a campus with people all from the same age/income level...

It is this exact mentality that is the reason people are paid so low anymore and have so much debt. They are programmed to think at a young age that you need to pay for college to get a good job... Paying to become "qualified" for a job. Qualified being open to alternate meanings (you know, the whole pretense society puts on credentials in most cases). This is why people will fly for an airline for 8 dollars an hour in an "internship". For "experience." If college didn't cost as much as it did, I wouldn't be calling it a scam.

Most of you people have it backwards... Requiring a degree wouldn't raise the bar, it would probably lower it. Because now people that paid the extra money for the degree are getting paid less because they became the majority. And then they learn to accept debt as a normal part of life and teach their kids the same. It shouldn't be this way.

 

I know a few people with PhDs that are dumb as rocks. It takes effort, dedication and commitment to get a college degree and it doesn't always prove that you are smart.

I am 9 credits away from a Master Degree and I am proud to have a MAS soon, regardless of what anyone says about college. If I owned my own company, I would not hire anyone without a bachelors degree. To me, it shows that you don't quit when things get hard and that you aren't lazy. No one forces anyone to get a college degree, people do it to better themselves. And for those that say they don't have time to go to college, there are plenty of online programs. If someone can spend 3 hours watching TV or on the internet, they can spend those 3 hours working on a term paper.

 

Very good point. My desk job is as a Data Analyst and I have a B.S. in Aeronautical Science with no programming experience. You don't have to go to school to understand what you are doing. I also build my own computers and work on my own car. There are plenty of resources out there for DIYs.