College Degree for upgrade
04-30-2009 | 07:39 PM
#11
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From: ERJ
I agree. But that is the kind of pay one should expect from a job thats only education requirement is a high school diploma. Airline pilots are professionals and as such should have certain education minimums. I realize that taking a college Greek literature class does not make you a better pilot, but it does make you a more rounded individual who can be a greater asset to the industry. This is a big factor of the prestige loss in this industry. Why would the flying public respect our profession? Any 19 year old kid with a GED and 500 hours can fly a commercial airliner carrying up to 76 passengers over 1700 miles but I digress this is just my backwards opinion.
04-30-2009 | 07:48 PM
#13
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Don't forget that just because flying may come natural to all of you doesn't mean that anyone can learn it. I believe that it takes a certain kind of person to pilot an aircraft, and no, not everyone can learn it. I'm sure those of you who were CFI's can attest to that. It may seem easy to you, but to others it's certainly not. Just like some people are better writers than others, etc. Judging by the way most people drive in this world, most of them would never make it to their first solo.
So I disagree when you say "any" 19 yr old with a GED and 500 can pilot an airliner.
Give credit where credit is due, but don't discredit the true complexity of piloting an aircraft. Especially in our complex airspace system...
So I disagree when you say "any" 19 yr old with a GED and 500 can pilot an airliner.
Give credit where credit is due, but don't discredit the true complexity of piloting an aircraft. Especially in our complex airspace system...
04-30-2009 | 07:49 PM
#14
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From: Sofa Stress Tester
I agree. But that is the kind of pay one should expect from a job thats only education requirement is a high school diploma. Airline pilots are professionals and as such should have certain education minimums. I realize that taking a college Greek literature class does not make you a better pilot, but it does make you a more rounded individual who can be a greater asset to the industry. This is a big factor of the prestige loss in this industry. Why would the flying public respect our profession? Any 19 year old kid with a GED and 500 hours can fly a commercial airliner carrying up to 76 passengers over 1700 miles but I digress this is just my backwards opinion.
Am I degrading people with degree's, no. Infact I hope to one day have a masters, but that's personal. But in the mean time, don't discount someone as being less than you for not having one.
04-30-2009 | 07:58 PM
#15
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If this were about some academic job then I would agree. But I place aviation, especially piloting in the skilled professional arena. No 4,6 or 8 yr degree is going to compensate for experience. And no passenger in their right mind is going to say that your still safe with a 4 yr degree and no experience.
Am I degrading people with degree's, no. Infact I hope to one day have a masters, but that's personal. But in the mean time, don't discount someone as being less than you for not having one.
Am I degrading people with degree's, no. Infact I hope to one day have a masters, but that's personal. But in the mean time, don't discount someone as being less than you for not having one.
Electricians don't stay alive by going to college... They learn on the job with someone more experienced than they are...
04-30-2009 | 09:45 PM
#16
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 95
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From: PIC
College is just a scam... A way to keep 18 to 22 snot nosed kids out of adult’s hair, and the school makes money and the economy gets stimulated in the process... (Loans force people to work to pay them back... Keeps banks in business as well, and employs more people, etc, etc., Most importantly keeps these kids in check so they can't protest on the streets of DC, etc.) It's all a system. What 19 yr old kid is really going to take their job seriously?
It's just a time killer/money maker IMO... I know some real idiots that managed to get a degree. Doesn't mean you are smart or more capable of anything at all. Some of my friends are living proof of that. Nothing wrong with it, they are still good people, and to each is own... But you get my point.
So no, I don't believe it should be a requirement. Some people are free thinkers and like learning about what interests them... Not what is laid out in their course catalogs under the section of whatever "Major" they choose.
Not saying that everyone who goes to college is not a free thinker, I'm just saying that the working world needs to open their minds a bit, becuase there are some brilliant minds out there that for whatever reason didn't end up taking the common upper middle class and higher trail in life (didn't end up in college).
I respect someone that worked their whole life much more than some spoiled brat that drove a car on their parents dime and went to school on their dime as well... Degree or not. But I also respect people who worked their way thru college as well...
It shouldn't matter in some things... As a pilot, you gotta know your stuff... I don't think there is much of a way to fake that. I know there are bad pilots out there and all, but again, you probably get my point. There is an exception for every rule I guess...
And the argument about being well rounded, and more professional, well I know some people with whatever MBA or MS that are far from well rounded and professional. I work with them. They were mostly all the types of kids I'm talking about. Everythign handed to them from day one, every advantage from day one, and they grow up to become the biggest cry baby/unprofessional/ignorant/disrespectful whatever people. They never had to work other lowly jobs to learn the ropes of real life... Their first jobs were at age 23 when they did their first internships. Pathetic in my opinion.
Going to a place full of kids from the same age/race/income level/class whatever isn't the best way to get 'educated' or to get exposed to the most 'diversity'.
So why should a degree automatically earn someone’s respect? Usually it's the people who had an easier life that 'earn' these degrees. Some of these degree holders arrogance baffles me.
But this is just my opinion.
It's just a time killer/money maker IMO... I know some real idiots that managed to get a degree. Doesn't mean you are smart or more capable of anything at all. Some of my friends are living proof of that. Nothing wrong with it, they are still good people, and to each is own... But you get my point.
So no, I don't believe it should be a requirement. Some people are free thinkers and like learning about what interests them... Not what is laid out in their course catalogs under the section of whatever "Major" they choose.
Not saying that everyone who goes to college is not a free thinker, I'm just saying that the working world needs to open their minds a bit, becuase there are some brilliant minds out there that for whatever reason didn't end up taking the common upper middle class and higher trail in life (didn't end up in college).
I respect someone that worked their whole life much more than some spoiled brat that drove a car on their parents dime and went to school on their dime as well... Degree or not. But I also respect people who worked their way thru college as well...
It shouldn't matter in some things... As a pilot, you gotta know your stuff... I don't think there is much of a way to fake that. I know there are bad pilots out there and all, but again, you probably get my point. There is an exception for every rule I guess...
And the argument about being well rounded, and more professional, well I know some people with whatever MBA or MS that are far from well rounded and professional. I work with them. They were mostly all the types of kids I'm talking about. Everythign handed to them from day one, every advantage from day one, and they grow up to become the biggest cry baby/unprofessional/ignorant/disrespectful whatever people. They never had to work other lowly jobs to learn the ropes of real life... Their first jobs were at age 23 when they did their first internships. Pathetic in my opinion.
Going to a place full of kids from the same age/race/income level/class whatever isn't the best way to get 'educated' or to get exposed to the most 'diversity'.
So why should a degree automatically earn someone’s respect? Usually it's the people who had an easier life that 'earn' these degrees. Some of these degree holders arrogance baffles me.
But this is just my opinion.
04-30-2009 | 09:53 PM
#17
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No I did, got my A.A.S. I was going to attend Drexel University for my B.S. once I got a job in the field (Information Technology) so they would help me pay for it... But my first IT related job out of college was a nightmare, so that plan got held up. I had to get out, so didn't want to commit to school and have to be stuck there to pay for it... Once I got my second IT job (where I'm at now) all of the sudden aviation became an actual possibility. (I actually started making enough money to earn my private pilot license.) And so I did. That created my aspiration to become an airline pilot.
I worked 2 jobs while completing my Associates. I was a restaurant manager, and an auto mechanic...
I learned more at all of my jobs than any school could ever teach me. But I guess I don't know how to appreciate things according to iahflyr.
I worked 2 jobs while completing my Associates. I was a restaurant manager, and an auto mechanic...
I learned more at all of my jobs than any school could ever teach me. But I guess I don't know how to appreciate things according to iahflyr.
Last edited by Dan64456; 04-30-2009 at 10:21 PM.
04-30-2009 | 10:05 PM
#18
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 219
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From: PA-44 Left Seat :P
College is just a scam... A way to keep 18 to 22 snot nosed kids out of adult’s hair, and the school makes money and the economy gets stimulated in the process... (Loans force people to work to pay them back... Keeps banks in business as well, and employs more people, etc, etc., Most importantly keeps these kids in check so they can't protest on the streets of DC, etc.) It's all a system. What 19 yr old kid is really going to take their job seriously?
It's just a time killer/money maker IMO... I know some real idiots that managed to get a degree. Doesn't mean you are smart or more capable of anything at all. Some of my friends are living proof of that. Nothing wrong with it, they are still good people, and to each is own... But you get my point.
So no, I don't believe it should be a requirement. Some people are free thinkers and like learning about what interests them... Not what is laid out in their course catalogs under the section of whatever "Major" they choose.
Not saying that everyone who goes to college is not a free thinker, I'm just saying that the working world needs to open their minds a bit, becuase there are some brilliant minds out there that for whatever reason didn't end up taking the common upper middle class and higher trail in life (didn't end up in college).
I respect someone that worked their whole life much more than some spoiled brat that drove a car on their parents dime and went to school on their dime as well... Degree or not. But I also respect people who worked their way thru college as well...
It shouldn't matter in some things... As a pilot, you gotta know your stuff... I don't think there is much of a way to fake that. I know there are bad pilots out there and all, but again, you probably get my point. There is an exception for every rule I guess...
And the argument about being well rounded, and more professional, well I know some people with whatever MBA or MS that are far from well rounded and professional. I work with them. They were mostly all the types of kids I'm talking about. Everythign handed to them from day one, every advantage from day one, and they grow up to become the biggest cry baby/unprofessional/ignorant/disrespectful whatever people. They never had to work other lowly jobs to learn the ropes of real life... Their first jobs were at age 23 when they did their first internships. Pathetic in my opinion.
Going to a place full of kids from the same age/race/income level/class whatever isn't the best way to get 'educated' or to get exposed to the most 'diversity'.
So why should a degree automatically earn someone’s respect? Usually it's the people who had an easier life that 'earn' these degrees. Some of these degree holders arrogance baffles me.
But this is just my opinion.
It's just a time killer/money maker IMO... I know some real idiots that managed to get a degree. Doesn't mean you are smart or more capable of anything at all. Some of my friends are living proof of that. Nothing wrong with it, they are still good people, and to each is own... But you get my point.
So no, I don't believe it should be a requirement. Some people are free thinkers and like learning about what interests them... Not what is laid out in their course catalogs under the section of whatever "Major" they choose.
Not saying that everyone who goes to college is not a free thinker, I'm just saying that the working world needs to open their minds a bit, becuase there are some brilliant minds out there that for whatever reason didn't end up taking the common upper middle class and higher trail in life (didn't end up in college).
I respect someone that worked their whole life much more than some spoiled brat that drove a car on their parents dime and went to school on their dime as well... Degree or not. But I also respect people who worked their way thru college as well...
It shouldn't matter in some things... As a pilot, you gotta know your stuff... I don't think there is much of a way to fake that. I know there are bad pilots out there and all, but again, you probably get my point. There is an exception for every rule I guess...
And the argument about being well rounded, and more professional, well I know some people with whatever MBA or MS that are far from well rounded and professional. I work with them. They were mostly all the types of kids I'm talking about. Everythign handed to them from day one, every advantage from day one, and they grow up to become the biggest cry baby/unprofessional/ignorant/disrespectful whatever people. They never had to work other lowly jobs to learn the ropes of real life... Their first jobs were at age 23 when they did their first internships. Pathetic in my opinion.
Going to a place full of kids from the same age/race/income level/class whatever isn't the best way to get 'educated' or to get exposed to the most 'diversity'.
So why should a degree automatically earn someone’s respect? Usually it's the people who had an easier life that 'earn' these degrees. Some of these degree holders arrogance baffles me.
But this is just my opinion.
Edit: after reading your posts, I have come to understand a bit more of where you come from. You obviously made a mistake in the major you wanted and had a bad experience in your first job which I would understand would give a sour impression to many. Most of the people I have met however, have loved college and say that college was one of the best times of their lives. Of course, not everyone is the same, but you should not say college is a scam because it obviously is not.
04-30-2009 | 10:13 PM
#19
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I am guessing you did not go to college. If you did then I respect your opinion but I disagree with it. If you did not, then your opinion is a very uneducated one.
Never have I heard someone in this forum post so much rubbish. Getting a degree is by far the smartest thing anyone could do.
Never have I heard someone in this forum post so much rubbish. Getting a degree is by far the smartest thing anyone could do.
I don't mean any harm or insult to anyone... I just feel it is important to express how I see things. Sugar coating things creates the problem we have in the US right now... Lawsuit happy, over sensitive(or at least pretending to be for personal gain), fake, paranoid society. Suppressing their true feelings only to eventually snap, or end up on anti-depressants. Is it any wonder that they claim 'mental illness' is on the rise? Drug companies need a profit too. LOL ok, ok, I'm going too far I know...
04-30-2009 | 10:24 PM
#20
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Joined: Apr 2007
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I am guessing you did not go to college. If you did then I respect your opinion but I disagree with it. If you did not, then your opinion is a very uneducated one.
Edit: after reading your posts, I have come to understand a bit more of where you come from. You obviously made a mistake in the major you wanted and had a bad experience in your first job which I would understand would give a sour impression to many. Most of the people I have met however, have loved college and say that college was one of the best times of their lives. Of course, not everyone is the same, but you should not say college is a scam because it obviously is not.
Edit: after reading your posts, I have come to understand a bit more of where you come from. You obviously made a mistake in the major you wanted and had a bad experience in your first job which I would understand would give a sour impression to many. Most of the people I have met however, have loved college and say that college was one of the best times of their lives. Of course, not everyone is the same, but you should not say college is a scam because it obviously is not.
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