College Degree for upgrade
05-06-2009 | 05:37 AM
#111
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
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I plan on getting my B.S. degree... I'm already 2 years there... Read the rest of the thread and you will see both sides of the story. I'm not attacking people that have degrees, I just hate when people view those without them as less of a person, or not as smart, or not as professional, or whatever. Those who are "credential-obsessed" and pull that card often have an inferiority complex. Not everyone has the same opportunity as a kid to get one, some people have to work to make ends meet right from the beginning, others are spoiled brats and got that diploma without ever having to work a day in their lives... Should the latter get more credit, preferential hiring, or respect? I think not. So I just see it as kind of pointless to gauge a person’s ability or intelligence level based on a college degree that could have been bought for them.
Having studied psychology, I believe you have some issues that stem from your not having a degree. I believe those issues will pass in the event that you graduate with a degree.
You are drawing some very unlikely comparisons about “spoiled brats” with diplomas who have never worked a day. Try getting your head around some upper level Math, Physics, Law, economics, and Business classes and you’ll get a sense of what “working” for a degree is all about. Try taking several classes each semester!
You are going to have to study hard. Even though, as a pilot, you think you have been challenged, you will be challenged much, much more. When you take upper level Math and Physics, you'll develop a greater understanding of aviation that goes way beyond FAA ATP level!
You did say pilots need to know their stuff right?
Aviation is all about Physics!
You will have to put in hours of study when you either have little time, or simply don't want to. You will have to cope with a lot of deadlines, pressure, and stress. That will be a measure of your coping skills. You will be frequently tested. You will be measured. Your grades will be compared.
Will you succeed, will you fail, will you give up, will you graduate with a high or low GPA?
You haven't done it so who can say?
Maybe you will struggle with certain subjects and drop out. Hopefully not. But, these are the unanswered questions that make graduates so attractive among non-graduates. Thus far, you have not cut it. They have!
Sorry to be blunt but that's the way it is.
The answers to these questions will be very revealing and speak volumes about you when you're sitting in front of a panel at an interview for a high paying job.
In all likelihood, those interviewing you will have succeeded in attaining a 4 year degree or higher!
How are you going to present yourself in front of graduates who are interviewing mostly graduates?
It’s clear that you don’t appreciate, or have respect for, the amount of work it takes to graduate from a good school with a four year degree. Evidently you think it’s much easier than it is.
I’m curious as to how you attained your 2 years credit so far. Do you have an Associates in something? Did you actually put in 2 years at college or did you transfer credit from your ATP?
Also, what’s your major/minor in? Have you studied upper division classes before? Which ones will you take?
Personally, I think you have a mountain to climb. I think it’s daunting and that’s what’s getting to you. It’s unfortunate that you are studying for a four year degree in a system you don’t believe in. That will probably change when you gain a lot more knowledge than you have now.
Work experience is valuable but it's no substitute for a degree.
You can't be a Major without first being a student of 4 long years!
AL
05-06-2009 | 07:28 AM
#112
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
College is just a scam... A way to keep 18 to 22 snot nosed kids out of adult’s hair, and the school makes money and the economy gets stimulated in the process... (Loans force people to work to pay them back... Keeps banks in business as well, and employs more people, etc, etc., Most importantly keeps these kids in check so they can't protest on the streets of DC, etc.) It's all a system. What 19 yr old kid is really going to take their job seriously?
It's just a time killer/money maker IMO... I know some real idiots that managed to get a degree. Doesn't mean you are smart or more capable of anything at all. Some of my friends are living proof of that. Nothing wrong with it, they are still good people, and to each is own... But you get my point.
So no, I don't believe it should be a requirement. Some people are free thinkers and like learning about what interests them... Not what is laid out in their course catalogs under the section of whatever "Major" they choose.
Not saying that everyone who goes to college is not a free thinker, I'm just saying that the working world needs to open their minds a bit, becuase there are some brilliant minds out there that for whatever reason didn't end up taking the common upper middle class and higher trail in life (didn't end up in college).
I respect someone that worked their whole life much more than some spoiled brat that drove a car on their parents dime and went to school on their dime as well... Degree or not. But I also respect people who worked their way thru college as well...
It shouldn't matter in some things... As a pilot, you gotta know your stuff... I don't think there is much of a way to fake that. I know there are bad pilots out there and all, but again, you probably get my point. There is an exception for every rule I guess...
And the argument about being well rounded, and more professional, well I know some people with whatever MBA or MS that are far from well rounded and professional. I work with them. They were mostly all the types of kids I'm talking about. Everythign handed to them from day one, every advantage from day one, and they grow up to become the biggest cry baby/unprofessional/ignorant/disrespectful whatever people. They never had to work other lowly jobs to learn the ropes of real life... Their first jobs were at age 23 when they did their first internships. Pathetic in my opinion.
Going to a place full of kids from the same age/race/income level/class whatever isn't the best way to get 'educated' or to get exposed to the most 'diversity'.
So why should a degree automatically earn someone’s respect? Usually it's the people who had an easier life that 'earn' these degrees. Some of these degree holders arrogance baffles me.
But this is just my opinion.
It's just a time killer/money maker IMO... I know some real idiots that managed to get a degree. Doesn't mean you are smart or more capable of anything at all. Some of my friends are living proof of that. Nothing wrong with it, they are still good people, and to each is own... But you get my point.
So no, I don't believe it should be a requirement. Some people are free thinkers and like learning about what interests them... Not what is laid out in their course catalogs under the section of whatever "Major" they choose.
Not saying that everyone who goes to college is not a free thinker, I'm just saying that the working world needs to open their minds a bit, becuase there are some brilliant minds out there that for whatever reason didn't end up taking the common upper middle class and higher trail in life (didn't end up in college).
I respect someone that worked their whole life much more than some spoiled brat that drove a car on their parents dime and went to school on their dime as well... Degree or not. But I also respect people who worked their way thru college as well...
It shouldn't matter in some things... As a pilot, you gotta know your stuff... I don't think there is much of a way to fake that. I know there are bad pilots out there and all, but again, you probably get my point. There is an exception for every rule I guess...
And the argument about being well rounded, and more professional, well I know some people with whatever MBA or MS that are far from well rounded and professional. I work with them. They were mostly all the types of kids I'm talking about. Everythign handed to them from day one, every advantage from day one, and they grow up to become the biggest cry baby/unprofessional/ignorant/disrespectful whatever people. They never had to work other lowly jobs to learn the ropes of real life... Their first jobs were at age 23 when they did their first internships. Pathetic in my opinion.
Going to a place full of kids from the same age/race/income level/class whatever isn't the best way to get 'educated' or to get exposed to the most 'diversity'.
So why should a degree automatically earn someone’s respect? Usually it's the people who had an easier life that 'earn' these degrees. Some of these degree holders arrogance baffles me.
But this is just my opinion.
By the way, you don't have to be a "spoiled brat" to attend and pay for college. There are multiple programs to help people pay for college, and by that I mean FREE money. Federal grants, scholarships, and tuition assistance from the military just to name a few.
So your bitterness about the college degree requirement for a job at a major is misplaced. It is no secret that you need a degree to get a job flying the big stuff, that is just how it is. Getting a degree is an accomplishment that shows that someone is educated in a variety of subject matter, follows through with a task, and has some level of determination to accomplish a goal.
05-06-2009 | 08:03 AM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 955
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From: 737 Right
There is some great information in these last few posts. I especially like this:
To succeed in college, I needed to study/work harder and longer than I ever did for an airman certificate or rating.
Originally Posted by alvrb211
You are going to have to study hard. Even though, as a pilot, you think you have been challenged, you will be challenged much, much more. When you take upper level Math and Physics, you'll develop a greater understanding of aviation that goes way beyond FAA ATP level!
05-06-2009 | 08:19 AM
#114
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 937
Likes: 0
From: 747 FO
............. However, I don't think that anyone on here has inferred (implied)that someone without a degree is any less of a person or is not as smart. If they have, than there (they're) an idiot. That being said, anyone who thinks being college educated is not important in this line of work is dead wrong..........
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm just jerking your chain!
Peace!
05-06-2009 | 10:16 AM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Having studied psychology, I believe you have some issues that stem from your not having a degree. I believe those issues will pass in the event that you graduate with a degree.
You are drawing some very unlikely comparisons about “spoiled brats” with diplomas who have never worked a day. Try getting your head around some upper level Math, Physics, Law, economics, and Business classes and you’ll get a sense of what “working” for a degree is all about. Try taking several classes each semester!
You are going to have to study hard. Even though, as a pilot, you think you have been challenged, you will be challenged much, much more. When you take upper level Math and Physics, you'll develop a greater understanding of aviation that goes way beyond FAA ATP level!
You did say pilots need to know their stuff right?
Aviation is all about Physics!
You will have to put in hours of study when you either have little time, or simply don't want to. You will have to cope with a lot of deadlines, pressure, and stress. That will be a measure of your coping skills. You will be frequently tested. You will be measured. Your grades will be compared.
Will you succeed, will you fail, will you give up, will you graduate with a high or low GPA?
You haven't done it so who can say?
Maybe you will struggle with certain subjects and drop out. Hopefully not. But, these are the unanswered questions that make graduates so attractive among non-graduates. Thus far, you have not cut it. They have!
Sorry to be blunt but that's the way it is.
The answers to these questions will be very revealing and speak volumes about you when you're sitting in front of a panel at an interview for a high paying job.
In all likelihood, those interviewing you will have succeeded in attaining a 4 year degree or higher!
How are you going to present yourself in front of graduates who are interviewing mostly graduates?
It’s clear that you don’t appreciate, or have respect for, the amount of work it takes to graduate from a good school with a four year degree. Evidently you think it’s much easier than it is.
I’m curious as to how you attained your 2 years credit so far. Do you have an Associates in something? Did you actually put in 2 years at college or did you transfer credit from your ATP?
Also, what’s your major/minor in? Have you studied upper division classes before? Which ones will you take?
Personally, I think you have a mountain to climb. I think it’s daunting and that’s what’s getting to you. It’s unfortunate that you are studying for a four year degree in a system you don’t believe in. That will probably change when you gain a lot more knowledge than you have now.
Work experience is valuable but it's no substitute for a degree.
You can't be a Major without first being a student of 4 long years!
AL
05-06-2009 | 10:40 AM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
Godot
I can't express how exactly true this is. Yes, with a certificate you learn about the physics of flight. However, with college level physics and chemistry courses you MASTER the physics of flight. You gain an in-depth level of understanding that can only come from many years of study in these areas. THIS makes you a better pilot, and I don't care what any body says to the contrary....it is true. College gives you the knowledge to draw educated and calculated conclusions based on the course study work you have been through. There is no replacement for this. Do you think the guy who designed and engineered that airplane your flying gained his knowledge from just "watching somebody else". Heck no, he spent many years of hard work in college learning structural mechanics and stress analysis so that our planes can take what ever we pilots throw at it. And I hope he had a 4.0 GPA!
Really as a pilot, having a degree is the best career move you can make.
Godot.
05-06-2009 | 10:47 AM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,534
Likes: 1
From: A320 CA
The image of college students slacking through their early 20's is a true one...a true image representing the people we knew that didn't make it to their Senior year and probably not much past their first Semester.
05-06-2009 | 11:00 AM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
I'm sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm just jerking your chain!
First to cast the stone.
05-06-2009 | 11:15 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 173
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Agreed, and I'm not in the least saying a person is less of a person without a degree, or is it a question of the quality of character, it is about the realities of life and the current state of the industry. I believe with the few jobs that are available a degree could be a deciding line between equally experienced candidates.
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