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-   -   Colgan 3407 NTSB Hearings (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/39762-colgan-3407-ntsb-hearings.html)

SrfNFly227 05-12-2009 07:39 AM

I am having the same problem with the NTSB website. Here is a link for the CVR through Fox News.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/...transcript.pdf

JungleBus 05-12-2009 07:44 AM

Hmm still working for me. Whenever ya'll can get on, the following is pretty enlightening:

Aircraft Performance Group report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation...027/418694.pdf

Flight Data Recorder Group report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation...027/417236.pdf

Operations Group report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation...027/417441.pdf

Human Performance Group report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation...027/418082.pdf

JungleBus 05-12-2009 07:57 AM

Some interesting stuff from the FDR & aircraft performance reports for those who can't access them right now:

They were level at 2400 before the decay in speed began.
Power levers went to flight idle when landing gear was deployed and never increased until after the upset.
Speed began decaying upon gear extension and was never arrested.
The captain called for Flaps 15 & landing check when the plane was already almost to the Flaps 15 vref speed. The flap handle had just been moved when the stick shaker went on, they were at 6.7 degrees (had been at 5).
Stick shaker went on at 126 knots. Calculated 1g stall speed in their configuration was 107 knots; at 126 knots it's calculated that 1.38g would stall the airplane.
Following stick shaker and autopilot disconnect, strong nose-up force is detected on the captain's yoke. The aircraft achieved 1.42g and a pitch and angle of attack of 20 degrees before stalling.
During most of the upset, the speed was between 90 and 110 knots.
The first officer appears to have retracted the flaps during the upset without prompting, as though for a go-around.

cal73 05-12-2009 07:59 AM

Bookmarked for reference.

JungleBus 05-12-2009 08:16 AM

54400 lbs @ Flaps 15:
Vref = 118
Vref (ice) = 138

54400 lbs @ Flaps 10:
Vref = 124
Vref (ice) = 144

54400 lbs @ Flaps 5:
Vref = 133
Vref (ice) = 153

At the moment of upset, flaps were at 6.7 degrees and the airspeed was 126 with a 12 degree AoA.

seafeye 05-12-2009 08:45 AM

I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like
seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash. ---HOT 2

seven6 05-12-2009 09:01 AM

Ntsb
 

Originally Posted by Excel (Post 608890)
They interviewed a former NTSB investigator who said that there is a direct correlation between low pay/retirement benefits and a lack of qualified pilots coming into the field. Gotta agree, at this point, who in their right mind would want to pursue this career?

The guy also took a crack at pilot “training academies”. Its gunna get ugly around here… :rolleyes:

And I am glad he discussed this issue. Now the only question I have is how would the NTSB go about making a suggestion to the FAA to increase pay/retirement benefits for airline pilots? The FAA would laugh at those suggestions. Creating a more strict syllabus at these 'training academies' would be the only way I can think of to limit the output of pilots therefore increasing demand. Any other ideas?

These hearings may be beneficial to future contract negotiations.

BlueMoon 05-12-2009 09:15 AM


Originally Posted by seven6 (Post 608991)
And I am glad he discussed this issue. Now the only question I have is how would the NTSB go about making a suggestion to the FAA to increase pay/retirement benefits for airline pilots? The FAA would laugh at those suggestions. Creating a more strict syllabus at these 'training academies' would be the only way I can think of to limit the output of pilots therefore increasing demand. Any other ideas?

These hearings may be beneficial to future contract negotiations.

Increasing barriers to entry into this profession will decrease supply, and in turn airlines will have to increase compensation to attract qualified applicants.

We saw this last year as some regionals were fighting to get qualified pilots. At Comair, which never paid for hotel rooms for new-hires, began offering housing for training. That was a big deal, since you are only paid like 240 a week in training, it was a start.

rickB 05-12-2009 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by fboehm (Post 608914)
I'm watching live and so far it has been a video of the accident sequence and presentations on icing.

I read the CVR transcript as well. It is tough to read through the last few seconds there.

where is the cvr?

[nvm found it]

SolidState 05-12-2009 10:52 AM


Originally Posted by FSUpilot (Post 609065)
your time with the sea cadets did nothing for you...

refrain from talking out your a** about things you have no experience with.

I was in air cadets not sea cadets and I do posses a private license that I obtained through Air Cadets for FREE! So to insult me and say cadets did nothing for me when I was one of VERY FEW that actually had the inherent skill to be given the training.

Solid-State


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