Sorry guys, I didn't want to type out the whole reg so grab your FAR/AIM.

Part 61-
61.159, section (e) say the one for two credit.
But Rick, it says 1200TT not PIC and section (e) just addresses how to get the restriction removed from section (d). So under ICAO standards you need 1200TT BUT SIC time (under 121/135 ops) cannot count 1 for 1 towards that 1200TT, it count 2 for 1. 2hrs SIC = 1hr TT.

But can someone clear up this part....The 250 PIC time still stands but there reg in there that says if you don't have the 250 PIC time then you need 100hrs of cross country time and at least 25 of that must be at night. (61.159)(a)(4)(i)(ii)

How can anyone not have 250 PIC??? Even if you just get all your ratings with CFI and MEI you should have close if not more then 250 PIC. Other than your single and multi rating, everything you got after that should have been dual received/PIC time.

Sorry guys, I didn't want to type out the whole reg so grab your FAR/AIM.

 

I think this thread has been re-born with the possibility of all Fo's requiring their ATP to work 121.

My question is with the 250 pic requirement. and the clause that has to do with PIC under supervision. What does that exactly mean? How do you act as PIC without a type-rating even if you are under-supervision?

 

It did say under SIC 121/135 ops I think, so I am guessing your CA is always supervising you???? I think that part is just a way for a 121/135 FO to get the PIC CREDIT. So you are getting PIC credit even though you are not typed, in a way it is like how you could long actual time (when you where in the clouds) when you were getting your instrument rating. Because you are benefiting off your CFII's certificate, so this would kind of be you getting the credit off your CA's ATP? I dunno, that is just want it seems like to me.

I hate REGS.... the way they are written is too hard to understand. Pretty much gibberish.

 

NO! You do not get PIC credit while actting as SIC. You are not performing the duties of PIC as SIC. This refers to SPIC or Supervised PIC like if you were getting a commercial multi liscense with having a single commercial to begin with. This DOES NOT APPLY TO A 121 FO. We are acting as SIC and SIC only. dont kid yourself.

 

An SIC cannot log PIC for these purposes.

But if agreed to in advance, the PIC can allow the SIC to "perform the duties of PIC", and log SIC time with remarks to that effect.

This time is NOT PIC by any means and cannot be logged as such, but it is SIC which you can substitute for the FAA ATP 250 hour PIC requirement.

This is nothing new, it used to be done all the time at mesa since many of their FO's were MAPD with 200 hour COMM AMEL (and not all of that was PIC). They had to do it to upgrade.

 

Um... 1st... relax... I never said you can LOG it as PIC... if that was what you think I meant, then sorry no it wasn't. I just simply said it sounded like that REG will give you PIC credit if you met those criteria that's all. My logbook for my FO time is logged as SIC nothing more.

 

If this actualy happened there needs to be a review of mesa pilot records. this is obsurd. Those guys actualy went out and paid for cessna time to get to the PIC requirement.

 

You sound REAL NEW to these forums with +500 posts!!

 

Notice that the original post originates from the year 2006.

 

What? Dangerous is sitting in the right seat of a 121 jet aircraft at 300 hours. "SIC" on a king air is a good place to learn as you are not really a required crew member since the king air 100 is a single pilot aircraft. You'll learn a lot more there than you will making endless trips around the patch in a 172.