3XLoser's idea of requiring 10,000 hours to sit left seat will make that necessity for flight time worse, further driving down wages. But, OTOH, I cannot disagree with his premise.

Catch 22....

 

Good point Bryrus. I would just like to eliminate the reality that we have two distinct tiers in the industry, and management's assumption that they can abuse those in the bottom tier. Just because you're in the right seat, doesn't mean you're just a time builder. I'm happy to sit in the right seat for a job with respectable pay and quality of life. Unfortunately, we presently have a situation that just continues to degrade the profession for all of us. Not to mention a situation where we have someone who just checked out on the left, and someone who's never seen winter on the right.

 

We as pilots need some way to get away from the "I'm just here to build time" mentality. Many have suggested that regionals would become career jobs for many pilots with the continued outsourcing of the major's flying. That would then force the pilots into insisting on more pay as they will be stuck at places like ExpressJet, Colgan, Eagle, etc. Then again, that would just aggravate the problem of under-cutting for work that all regionals now have to do to stay viable.

Anyway, I have no solution, unfortunately, on how we can get young pilots not to take these dangerously awful jobs just to build the time. Any thoughts?

 

Correct, entirely agree with you..... Some regional pilots don't care how much they make, or what over-time pay is...... They don't care about that because. " I'll be moving on, so who cares"..... That was my mentallity when I was at the regionals, I figure soon I'd get a kick ass corporate job, maybe flying a G-V or a Global Express, and leave the regional life behind me, so who cares what they pay me. I SCREWED UP, definetly the wrong attitude...... I didn't do myself or others any favors. I'm the first to admit I was part of the problem

 

Unfortunately most believe like the poor colgan FO that after a few thousand hours at colgan they're going to wind up at Alaska or Fedex. It's becoming a pipe dream. Even pilots that have been there and done that will not sway potential pilots. We can't, it's like crack cocaine. They have to try it.

 

In the construction industry there is a "prevailing wage". It is based on many factors, do some research. I would recommend google.
While working for a regional airline (as an FO) I make appx. $25,000 pay & Benefits. While working on prevaling wage construction jobs as an Electrician I made around $115,000. Prevailing Wage (Davis-Bacon) could be very easily done in the airline industry because most airlines recieve some kind of Government subsidy that would be cut off if they choose not to pay prevailing wage...........

You are trying to recreate the wheel.

 

That's a good point as I have often thought of that. Senior pilots and heavy jet guys, please don't take this the wrong way, but the only reason for the difference in pay between a commuter pilot and a legacy pilot is liability. The amount of work, pride taken, and level of responsibility is almost equal. For example if I were to fly a nice comfortable 777 across the country it would most likely take the same precautions, same pride, same level of flying skill as flying an ERJ170 on the same route. So why the pay difference? I guess it all boils down to more lives. Somehow if we were to admit to the passengers that their lives on that Q400 are worth less than the lives on the 757 they might start to complain a little more than usual. A life is a life but the airline see's it as how big of a lawsuit would there be if the plane were to go down. This is a principle that we have all through the years just adopted. Obviously pay is based on seats because of the revenue generated but do they pay the pilot less when the airplane is empty? So I think the biggest factor is liability. I'm probably going to get a lot of flack for going there but someones gotta step up. No offense.

 

Maybe it's the major's fault:

If we didn't have an expectation of 150-300k per year after making it to the major airlines, we wouldn't have so many new professional starts. Both pilots in the Colgan CVR mention this wage,

Perhaps we shouldn't consider a minimum wage as much as a maximum wage...eh?

Think about that.

 

I'm a big fan of setting wages across the industry to prevent whipsaw. Though my fear is if it's a government controlled wage (like Davis-Bacon) who then gets to set these wages? I would imagine there would be massive lobbying between ALPA and the airlines to tweak these wages up and down. Chances are, in light of cheap air fare, we'd probably lose every time.

 

In this industry theres alot of competition among pilot groups, the low cost carriers versus the legacies, all the regionals arguing about who stole who's flying. Maybe this is something that all airline pilots can agree on......better pay!

It would obviously be a tough battle but I think the wages would easily rise on the regional side of things, with government support, thus helping the majors get better rates.

Alot of pilots argue about scope, which is a ship that sailed a long time ago, and won't be returning to port. This would help offset the scope issues. United is talking about outsourcing their international flying, if all the pilots flying in the US are required to earn a certain hourly rate, this would put a stop to that outsourcing.