Interesting......... Personally I think we should always demonstrate a full stall recovery. Even though our syllabus only requires us to demonstrate a recovery at the first sign, my instructors have allowed me to practice the maneuver (both in the 120 and the CR2/7/9's).

I hope that more airlines adopt a full stall recovery as a train to proficiency maneuver; after all, stalling a C172 is entirely different than stalling an RJ, Boeing or Airbus.

 

As a former Colganite, I'm appalled by this Senator's attempt to look like he cares.

The more and more I watch this investigation, the more and more I see that Colgan is really not the root of the problem. It's rediculous rest requirements and horrible oversight by the FAA. Colgan loves to save money. Pinnacle loves to save even more money. NEITHER of them would save money by putting passengers in harms way. Colgan hired low time pilots because thats what were available at the time. Comair did it, Air Wisconsin did it, American Eagle did it and the beloved ExpressJet did it. This is nothing more than a crew who wasn't paying attention (maybe b/c they were tired) and freaked out when they were caught off guard by the pusher.

I hope however, that these hearings by Senator Bocceri bring some light to the horrible working conditions nowadays for airline pilots. But if we were really paid what we deserve, we wouldn't have passengers because tickets would be so damn expensive.

Unfortunately- I believe this Senate Hearing focussing on Colgan Air, will in fact bring the airline down. The Q400's will go over to Pinnacle and the SAABs will die. It's just too much bad press for an already financially struggling company. Good luck to all Colganites involved.

 

I agree; Colgan will more than likely not survive this. Pinnacle Inc will be forced to merge the two pilot groups and their operations. Although I'm not sure the Saabs will die, there is still a lot of flying out there for midsize TP's.

In the LONG run this should be good for both sides (on many levels) but then again I don't work for either company so who am I........................

Best of luck to all!

 

Not quite sure if the benefit would be that great for requiring recovery from a full stall in training for all aircraft. The EMB120, sure, straight wing, and pretty conventional stall recovery characteristics, might hold some value, as a full stall would probably be very recoverable, with a little bit of altitude.

The CRJ on the other hand, I tried practicing this in the sim as well, and I'll tell you I could not recover the aircraft in any reasonable amount of altitude. Granted, this was a true FULL stall, beyond the buffeting and any hope of roll control. It was wicked, I was amazed at how long it took to fully develop and just how slow the IAS got (<80 KIAS). I was even more amazed at just how hard it was to recover, 20 degrees pitch down and 170 KIAS and the thing was still stalled, not to mention one of the engines flamed out in the process. I'm a firm believer that prevention is the key here. Kinda like spins in the Grumman Yankee.

Perhaps if training was modified to allow some loss of altitude during the recovery process if necessary, a situation like this might have a better outcome. It works great in the sim to maintain attitude during the recovery, but lets face it, in the real world if one gets THAT slow, there are probably mitigating circumstances that one might actually have to lower the nose to effect a prompt recovery (ice, steep bank resulting in a high wing load, turbulence/windshear, etc.).

 

And I agree, my first attempted full stall in the CR7 sim resulted in an 8K altitude loss plus one secondary stall before I recovered. It was eye opening and beyond the norm that I was used to. I don’t feel that it should be a "jeopardy" event, more of a training event with the goal of building pilot experience. Pilots need to know that swept wing aircraft can’t be recovered as quickly as straight wing a/c and just talking about it isn’t enough.

 

"As a licensed commercial air carrier, your company has a statutory and moral responsibility to ensure the safety of your passengers. However, based on NTSB reports and public statements by Colgan officials, I am left to assume that your company is not conducting sufficient efforts to investigate the backgrounds and qualifications of your pilots; is requiring only the minimum training and safety requirements spelled out by the Federal Aviation Administration; and is making little to no effort to ensure that pilots have sufficient rest prior to taking control of your aircraft. While your company's guidelines may meet the letter of the law, they clearly do not satisfy the spirit of these regulations or the reasonable expectations your customers have that Colgan Air will make every effort to ensure their safety. "

I am sorry, but this is such a BS statement. Laws are established as LAWS. If the govn't feels that more training is neccissary, they need to regulate it. Its like posting a speed limit at 75mph when going through a turn you can only do it at 20hph, and then blaming everyone who hits the trees. Obviously, they shouldn't be going that fast into a turn. But were they breaking the law. No. Is the law sufficient, obviously not...

 

Furthermore, this congressman is showing his ignorance by jumping on the media bandwagon in an effort to affect popular opinion. This is the public hearing, the preliminary factual hearing if you will. The probable causes will not be issued until the Sunshine hearing, sometime later in the year, or perhaps next year. Basing any official opinion upon information obtained during this hearing is disrespectful to the process, and ignorant. It is similar to attempting to sentence someone to death for murder, before they have been formally charged. There is a legal process that MUST take place if we wish to truly learn from our mistakes, and prevent them in the future. One day The FAA, Colgan Airlines, The Person at starbucks will be officialy reported as being one of the causal factors leading to this accident. At that point, the letters should be written, the laws should be evaluated, and the media should report the facts, not the opinions. Until then, he is simply trying to make himself feel important.

 

elcid79, this is nothing more than "political grandstanding." Right now there are several Congressmen jockeying for position with the hopes of taking the lead and getting reelected.

 

With wheel's falling off, landing gear buckling all over the world, and this incident I wouldn't be surprised if the Q400 was toast.

 

Interesting. I think at the very least we will see a name change, Colgan is the new ValueJet currently and a name change will have to happen.

As far as PNCL Corp merging the lists who knows. I do not think they would get rid of the Saabs. Saabs are profitable with the new rate agreements Colgan has with the codeshares.

I would like to see a name change followed by PNCL Corp allowing ALPA to begin to draft some provisions for a merged list.