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Old 05-17-2009 | 09:30 AM
  #41  
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From: Airbus 319/320 Captain
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Your right! Its not Colgans fault. They operate at the bare minimums as specified by your government. Both pilots were qualified, current and legal to fly that trip. This accident, once again, should demonstrate how important our profession is. I would love to hear Colgan management come out in public and state the co-pilots yearly pay. Not gonna happen and we all know why. Everyone should know by now that when you operate under a system that glorifies the pursuit of a piece of paper with green ink on it, your gonna continue to encounter accidents like this. Good luck to us all.
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Old 05-17-2009 | 09:32 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by captjns
Another example of a clueless politician pandering votes and attention from the constituency. Where has this self serving individual been hibernating? What was the last airline he flew with. I’m sure the congressman was the ace of the base of his squadron. However never living the life of a regional pilot does not give him the right to pound his fist on the desk and make demands for answers.

Mr. Boccieri asks: “Do Colgan Air's minimum flight requirements for air crew exceed FAA guidelines, or simply meet them? Do you still find those regulations to be sufficient?”

Tell us Mr. Boccieri, please cite the specific FAR, Advisory Circular, or even the 8410, and any other guideline(s) that specifies minimum flight requirements.

Mr. Boccieri asserts, “Even the most basic pilot training – from Cessnas to bombers – includes basic training to correct a stall. It is becoming clear that the 50 deaths that occurred that night in February were not only tragic, but likely avoidable.”

Enlighten us Mr. Boccieri, provide this forum with a training syllabus outlining training for the recovering from full stalls.

Yes Mr. Boccieri, go on and continue to be the typical stereotypical lazy politician that I continue to identify with, and take incomplete and inaccurate information and spin it something that will benefit your next campaign.

Tell me Mr. Boccieri even Colgan humors you by responding to your letter, what is your game plan? What is your game plan if Colgan does not respond to your letter.


By the way Mr. Boccieri where were you when pay and benefits were being cut at the major carriers? What recommendations, or madates have you proposed after Sully's testimony before congress?
I think a more effective method of getting in touch with Mr. Boccieri other than posting on APC is writing him.

Conressman John Boccieri
1516 Longworth HOB
Washington, DC 20515
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Old 05-17-2009 | 09:46 AM
  #43  
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From: 737 FO
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Originally Posted by JetJock16
Quote:

Really? So a B2 pilots demonstrate a full stall recovery during training? Remember Capt. Glen Edwards and the YB-49? How about you 747 pilots.............do you demonstrate "pusher" or "full stall" recoveries? 71, 73, 75, 76, 77 pilots? Airbus A300, A310, A318, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340 pilots? How about you Mad Doggers? Anyone?

I have no problems with changes that better our industry but somebody needs to educate this Congressmen on the "basic" differences between Cessna’s and transport category aircraft or any other aircraft for that matter with higher performance than a basic GA plane.
I am military and we did full stall recovery training in the C-9, T-1 and T-37. The C-17 has fly by wire and thus has an alpha floor that makes it very difficult to stall but we train into the alpha floor and recover. On the civilian side, I have trained to the alpha floor in the airbus 320. I did full stall recoveries in the MD-80 and 737 sims. The point is, I think it is important to demonstrate the full stall...especially if your aircraft has a stick pusher. Could you imagine someone's surprise and gut reaction to a real stick pusher if they NEVER saw it in the sim?
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Old 05-17-2009 | 02:52 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Moose
I am military and we did full stall recovery training in the C-9, T-1 and T-37. The C-17 has fly by wire and thus has an alpha floor that makes it very difficult to stall but we train into the alpha floor and recover. On the civilian side, I have trained to the alpha floor in the airbus 320. I did full stall recoveries in the MD-80 and 737 sims. The point is, I think it is important to demonstrate the full stall...especially if your aircraft has a stick pusher. Could you imagine someone's surprise and gut reaction to a real stick pusher if they NEVER saw it in the sim?
Thank you and I completely agree, after 2 or 3 times in the sim I had the stall down cold. I felt that it should have been a part of the syllabus and even though it wasn't I still wanted the practice. At the regional level where most of the new hires have only flown Cessna’s or Piper’s I feel that it’s extremely important to show them just how their new a/c handles in all situations………….full stalls included, after all, their new a/c's a whole different animal compared to what they’ve been flying.
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Old 05-18-2009 | 10:59 AM
  #45  
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From: Radio Flyer (The lil red wagon)
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Originally Posted by Convairator
He just got elected, so he probably doesnt need to be re-elected just yet FYI. Again, check facts before posting broad sweeping statements. The media does the same thing and we trash them for it, you reciprocated. I dont see why you are soo dissapointed that for once, a politician that knows aviation well is speaking on it. Somebody has to stand up for us to help improve on this industry. Who is helping us?

Certainly not ALPA. alpa is a joke and thats what people dont realize. ALPA has existed the entire time this industry has taken a nose dive. Why has it taken a nosedive. I know there is a million reasons, etc, etc, etc. But why hasnt alpa helped improve pay, QOL, etc? They have not. Just because maybe they helped you get 31 an hour instead of 30, does that matter? The pay is horrible either way. ALPA sits on the sidelines and watches, and there biggest concern is membership drives, who is coming, and who is going. Their actual 'action' phase is minimal. I feel sorry for anybody that puts their confidence in such a group. I am 100% for unionization, however, I wouldnt mind seeing one that actually produces results and doesnt exhaust all of their funds on recruiting new members instead of actually doing something effective.

Airways pilots were very intelligible in thier decision to move on with a new organizer.
I didn't make "sweeping statements." I asked questions and even used question marks. The only "statement" I made was that he is a politician attempting to be re-elected. He is a member of the house, they have two year terms. He is trying 24hrs a day to get re-elected.
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Old 05-18-2009 | 11:00 AM
  #46  
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From: Radio Flyer (The lil red wagon)
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Originally Posted by Milk Man
I definately think the congressman's questions are uneducated and should be wondering more as to how these problems can be resolved. Such as duty time, rest period, and training. I think he needs to start asking the FAA instead of Colgan.

Very well said.
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Old 05-18-2009 | 04:15 PM
  #47  
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From: Dash-8 right seat
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight
I didn't make "sweeping statements." I asked questions and even used question marks. The only "statement" I made was that he is a politician attempting to be re-elected. He is a member of the house, they have two year terms. He is trying 24hrs a day to get re-elected.
Must be true, I live in his district and got a re-election letter from him, today. No joke.
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Old 05-18-2009 | 10:00 PM
  #48  
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Having flown the Q400 for 2.5 years...I would have to say the airplane isn't as "fragile" as ToiletDuck would like to make it out to be. Only 3 times have I had a mechanical cancelation.

I've had some very "firm" landings in Reno and Sun Valley...and the airplane took it like a Dash 8 should.

Sure it has had it's fair share of issues...but like all things mechanical...they break and don't work 100% of the time.

During my initial training at Horizon (I came from the GA world...biggest thing I had flown was a Conquest I)...I had a great instructor. We did different configurations to stick shaker per the training plan, but we did full stalls to the pusher. The Q400 handled it well. Even during upset training we did a 110 deg bank, 15 deg nose down...and it rolled right on around and kept on going.
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