Actually you can, military flight training is exactly about teaching experience in very contolled conditions. Did it for 14 years. Wanna go out an learn to land on a carrier? You start at the field, day/night/very controlled wind requirements, etc. Build up from that experience to stronger winds, etc. The experience is taught because, like a petri dish, you control the environment. Evaluations and constructive instruction critical. Weed out anyone that doesn't grow correctly "in the dish". The real challenge? Airlines nor anyone in a 'for profit' business wants to get stuck for the tab. All dollars, making someone wait till 1500 hours is putting a bandaid on a decapitation. Might make some feel better (in the back) but won't help the safety statistics. Oh well.

 

Learning to land in a crosswind is learning to fly, like you said, in a petri dish.

The 121 environment is not a petri dish. We can't just reset the simulator on the Colgan crash. haha, red screen, now what did we learn from that? This is the real world, not a petri dish.

I'm not knocking military training at all, but its training. Just like a new doctor, he's got all the training, but he needs the experience before he's the chief of whatever. (sorry, don't watch enough ER type shows)

 

Have decades of GA/Regional/Military/121 experience. Yep,IMO, 121 is a petri dish. Witness all the FAR's written from blood. The military just has a bigger ability to charge the training to the taxpayer, but it is very effective and very real world.

 

I'm not doubting the training is real world scenarios, but am I the only one who thinks that experience beyond how to do a stall and crosswind landing is important?

 

That was my point.<g> experience is vital. However, I don't see experience as exclusively some random series of events to be obtained willy nilly. It is trained, just like firefighters. They train for nasty stuff in controlled environmemts to give them experience for a similiar real world event.

 

The Air Force's whole premise of Red Flag was to give the crews their first 10 REAL WORLD experiences (as real world as training can get at least) so that the first time they found themselves in combat they felt like they had been there before. It is an attempt at training and gaining experience and it seems to work pretty well.

I agree that there isn't a substitute for experience. I guess the problem in the 'make a buck' world is where you get that training.

USMCFLYR

 

Single Pilot 135 Cargo. Unfortunately it's on the job training by yourself. You learn real quick through trial and error what your and the airplanes limitations are. You push the limit to far and drill a hole in the ground, than you become another statistic instead of breaking news on CNN. Nobody cares about 1 dead pilot and a bunch of boxes or checks.

Is it an imperfect system? Yes.

Does it produce the seasoning and experience that your describing? Well that's up for debate.

Will you draw on those experiences for the rest of your flying career? Most definitely.

 

It sounds like wonderful experience - but if you made it required to go through that step on your way to an airline seat; would there actually be enough opportunities for pilots? I think P135 experience would be wonderful but there has to be other avenues available that provide such experience. Again - when I finally got all of my ratings and started to look for a job (and I didn't want to instruct at the time) I never consider that going straight to a regional was even an option; and maybe it wasn't back in the mid-late 80s.

USMCFLYR

 

I agree with this...of course being a CFI for 1500 hours is, as anything else, what you put in will be what you get out. I was a very INTENSE instructor, because I wanted my students to reflect good on me and I wanted to learn as much as I could. No 2 CFI flights are exactly the same, even if they feel the same. That being said a guy with 250 hours might have 1 crictical decision. A 1500 hour guy may have 3 or more, but the lesson to be learned is...the more flight time you have the more critical decisions you will make, which leads to the foundation of a strong PIC. You can not deny this. Thus quantity of time is the best measure of likely quality through more real world tests and not checkride prepped enviornments.

When you fly single pilot IFR you are the first, last, and ONLY line of defense between mission accomplished and a smoking hole in the ground. Wx tries to kill you. Airplane malfunctions try to kill you. Bosses try to kill you. Other pilots will push "minimums" and then tell you its good. Nobody cares about the rules until it affects them so they tell you it will be ok. It is up to you and ONLY you to stay safe, legal, and at the same time mission oriented to make the man his money. Its dangerous, and by dangerous I mean if you stop paying attention for just an extra second you will be done for.

A good pilot, and especially a 135 pilot, is a paranoid person who thinks everyone and everything is out to screw him for LIFE...other pilots, bosses, the FAA, fuelers, and customers. Watch your back, front, and sides at all times, and you will most likely be ok.

 

What is the possibility that the Regionals will become too expensive to operate and mainline will just replace 2-3 RJs with B737s and increase tickets prices a few dollars to increase pay for turbo prop FOs???

It will be a huge test to CFI in a C172 for 1500 hours. A test of skill and will.

Could this be the end of the RJ operators if a shortage/cost have a big enough spread?

Probably a pipe dream, but it would be a dream come true.