Proposed ATP/1500 Minimums for 121 Carriers
07-31-2009 | 06:42 PM
#291
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From: none ya...
07-31-2009 | 07:59 PM
#292
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Light Chop
I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying "you should instruct, fly freight and then get hired on at a regional because thats the way it used to be!" Well thats bull ****.
I started flying in 1991. I got hired with an airline in 2000. I either learned to fly or taught at three different flight schools in two states, one a major university. Of all of the pilots I met only one went and did single pilot cargo in order to get to a regional and that was because they were unfairly turned down earlier. In the long run, it didn't help them get a better job as they are still doing the regional gig as most in our grouip of friends went on to mainline 121, which is shame they deserve to be here too.
Most instructed until they were hired, usually 200ME was the key and total time ranged from 1000-2000 hours. Except for one who did the SIC Airnet program where you got hired as a SIC on a Navajo, the cargo folks I saw wanted to be corporate or avoid PFT, but in reality they just became corporate. That SIC at Airnet did that program to avoid becoming a CFI and was hired at a regional before becoming a PIC and they had to of course pay Airnet back or something like that. The other cargo I saw was one who got turned down from several regionals before doing cargo and finally get hired in.
Now I think someone needs to introduce into this bill a provision dropping Part 135 PIC cargo in non-turbine aircraft down to less than 1200TT. I think that is overdue.
Personally, I think you should have to be a CFII to get hired as an airline pilot.
I started flying in 1991. I got hired with an airline in 2000. I either learned to fly or taught at three different flight schools in two states, one a major university. Of all of the pilots I met only one went and did single pilot cargo in order to get to a regional and that was because they were unfairly turned down earlier. In the long run, it didn't help them get a better job as they are still doing the regional gig as most in our grouip of friends went on to mainline 121, which is shame they deserve to be here too.
Most instructed until they were hired, usually 200ME was the key and total time ranged from 1000-2000 hours. Except for one who did the SIC Airnet program where you got hired as a SIC on a Navajo, the cargo folks I saw wanted to be corporate or avoid PFT, but in reality they just became corporate. That SIC at Airnet did that program to avoid becoming a CFI and was hired at a regional before becoming a PIC and they had to of course pay Airnet back or something like that. The other cargo I saw was one who got turned down from several regionals before doing cargo and finally get hired in.
Now I think someone needs to introduce into this bill a provision dropping Part 135 PIC cargo in non-turbine aircraft down to less than 1200TT. I think that is overdue.
Personally, I think you should have to be a CFII to get hired as an airline pilot.
07-31-2009 | 09:32 PM
#294
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07-31-2009 | 10:53 PM
#295
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I'd also like to bring up a point. People against this seem to be saying that 1500 is some random number, as if congress just said, POOF! 1500. Its not really that they are saying 1500, its that they are saying you need an ATP...the FAA said 1500.
08-01-2009 | 03:29 AM
#296
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Some unintended consequences of the 1,500 hour & ATP rule.
In about one year after passage of the law the regional flight school mills will have a shrinking enrollment base. This is do to the amount TT a graduate has, the three year window to get an ATP and the amount of hours one could fly per year to build up to the 1,500 hours. At some point regionals will demand an ATP upon hire as the three year window will be closing and they don't want to be in a position of hiring and training only to let someone go because they won't have an ATP by the deadline. Flight schools mills will greatly downsize or go out of business.
Flight instructors will get dirt pay as they can't jump to regionals with 400TT.
Freight operators will pay dirt as guys/gals want to build time. We may even see some of those pay us to fly as SIC to build time deals. Even IFR Part 135 demand 1,200tt.
I think many new folks will bypass flying as a career.
In about one year after passage of the law the regional flight school mills will have a shrinking enrollment base. This is do to the amount TT a graduate has, the three year window to get an ATP and the amount of hours one could fly per year to build up to the 1,500 hours. At some point regionals will demand an ATP upon hire as the three year window will be closing and they don't want to be in a position of hiring and training only to let someone go because they won't have an ATP by the deadline. Flight schools mills will greatly downsize or go out of business.
Flight instructors will get dirt pay as they can't jump to regionals with 400TT.
Freight operators will pay dirt as guys/gals want to build time. We may even see some of those pay us to fly as SIC to build time deals. Even IFR Part 135 demand 1,200tt.
I think many new folks will bypass flying as a career.
08-01-2009 | 03:42 AM
#297
Line Holder
Joined: May 2006
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From: Skywest poolie
Some unintended consequences of the 1,500 hour & ATP rule.
In about one year after passage of the law the regional flight school mills will have a shrinking enrollment base. This is do to the amount TT a graduate has, the three year window to get an ATP and the amount of hours one could fly per year to build up to the 1,500 hours. At some point regionals will demand an ATP upon hire as the three year window will be closing and they don't want to be in a position of hiring and training only to let someone go because they won't have an ATP by the deadline. Flight schools mills will greatly downsize or go out of business.
Flight instructors will get dirt pay as they can't jump to regionals with 400TT.
Freight operators will pay dirt as guys/gals want to build time. We may even see some of those pay us to fly as SIC to build time deals. Even IFR Part 135 demand 1,200tt.
I think many new folks will bypass flying as a career.
In about one year after passage of the law the regional flight school mills will have a shrinking enrollment base. This is do to the amount TT a graduate has, the three year window to get an ATP and the amount of hours one could fly per year to build up to the 1,500 hours. At some point regionals will demand an ATP upon hire as the three year window will be closing and they don't want to be in a position of hiring and training only to let someone go because they won't have an ATP by the deadline. Flight schools mills will greatly downsize or go out of business.
Flight instructors will get dirt pay as they can't jump to regionals with 400TT.
Freight operators will pay dirt as guys/gals want to build time. We may even see some of those pay us to fly as SIC to build time deals. Even IFR Part 135 demand 1,200tt.
I think many new folks will bypass flying as a career.
08-01-2009 | 04:57 AM
#298
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From: none ya...
No problem, my opinions have always been mine....I guess Its a good thing though because one thing I have noticed with this thread for the first time in awhile on APC, people are having a frank discussion about a very important topic, and its remaining very civil. I think the fact that this thread has gone this way shows us that truly even if we disagree we can have a very meaningful conversation that at least gets us all talking about very important things facing this industry. It has been a long time since I have enjoeyed a thread this much, even the differing opinions
08-01-2009 | 05:10 AM
#299
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From: I only fly multi-winged airplanes.
Originally Posted by CaptainTeezy 
It will be a huge test to CFI in a C172 for 1500 hours. A test of skill and will.
Quoted for gospel...
Guys did it this way since the dawn of time. Kids these days...sheesh...
I HARDLY flew my tail off CFIing. Took some time off to go back to school, and once I went back to the CFI gig, found myself doing stagecheck pilot stuff, where I flew less than your average bear.
It STILL only took me 3 years to go from wet-CFI to commuter gig (which, BTW, required ATP mins), and that was in the middle of a recession. I learned a METRIC ton of information in that time, including how to run an aviation operation filled with recalcitrant, irritating, stubborn people (AKA pilots), evaluate students, how to get a new syllabus approved from scratch in a 141 op, deal with the FAA on a regular, professional basis, as well as countless other "skill sets".
So spare us all the "woe is me, I have to fly a new 172 with G1000" malarky. No one except your fellow millenial whiners wants to hear it. Man up and get it done.
Nu
It will be a huge test to CFI in a C172 for 1500 hours. A test of skill and will.
Quoted for gospel...
Guys did it this way since the dawn of time. Kids these days...sheesh...
I HARDLY flew my tail off CFIing. Took some time off to go back to school, and once I went back to the CFI gig, found myself doing stagecheck pilot stuff, where I flew less than your average bear.
It STILL only took me 3 years to go from wet-CFI to commuter gig (which, BTW, required ATP mins), and that was in the middle of a recession. I learned a METRIC ton of information in that time, including how to run an aviation operation filled with recalcitrant, irritating, stubborn people (AKA pilots), evaluate students, how to get a new syllabus approved from scratch in a 141 op, deal with the FAA on a regular, professional basis, as well as countless other "skill sets".
So spare us all the "woe is me, I have to fly a new 172 with G1000" malarky. No one except your fellow millenial whiners wants to hear it. Man up and get it done.
Nu
I am not sure if you think I am the "woe is me..." guy but that is far from the truth...who exactly are you talking to? My point was that the guys that really want it will have the desire to instruct for 1500 hours and you cant half ass 1500 hours or you will do something to get a bad mark or your certificate. My point was that 1500 hours will be a good test of ones skill and will (desire).
I instructed to ATP mins,got my ATP and am doing the 135 freight gig. So I believe I am getting done what little there is to get done right now.
08-01-2009 | 05:58 AM
#300
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From: 747 FO
and no.
