Perhaps you don't understand the scope of the word.

 

Settle down, francis.

I don't work for Pinnacle; the closest I came to it was riding in the 9E jumpseat many times between IND-PHL when I worked at Air Wisconsin.

I'm not saying that your TA isn't disappointing (haven't seen it), and yeah its detrimental to the industry as a whole that proposed payrates are less than those in a truly concessionary agreement from 2003 (especially when ARW 50 seat FOs have a higher hourly rate than the proposed 60+ seat 9E rates)...but the simple fact is that one cannot conceed that which they don't have.

If you make $70/hr and go to $68/hr, that is a concession. If you have 12 days off and go to 11 days off, that is a concession. If you loosen up scheduling language to the detriment of crewmembers, that is a concession.

Your TA and the details in it might not meet industry average, and it might not meet crewmember expectations, but neither of those make it concessionary if it improves on your current book.

But that's really all semantics; if you don't like it, vote the thing down in flames and lobby your colleagues to do the same thing.

 

Facts are stubborn little things. Well said, Boiler.

 

It is all semantics and I'm basing this on a big picture view. If ALPA has no desire to raise the industry up then no, this is not a concessionary contract. If you're talking about this from an industry standpoint then taking a raise from $24 to $31/hour while the rest of the industry enjoys $35 then you've conceeded. So where's the sweet spot in this contract? What great thing did we gain? Yeah... we didn't. It's just pulling the anchor up a bit.

Hopefully it will go down in flames.

Sincerely,

Francis

 

While what's been posted here doesn't sound like a concessionary contract it doesn't need to be less pay to be concessionary. Let's say there wasn't a pay raise or a very small one under the definition of concession given here that wouldn't be a concessionary contract. However it would technically be a concession if your pay doesn't at least keep up or out pace inflation.

Let's say in 1970 I got paid $6 an hour but now I get paid $8 an hour, sure on paper it might not look like I got a better contract now but I'd take living in 1970 on $6 an hour over now at $8 an hour any day of the week

 

that is a great avatar, flyasa lol

 

Just say no. Anything else is pathetic.

 

This is ridiculous. You are all arguing about the definition of a word in trying to increase genitalia size by proving who has the right definition of the word. Who the hell cares. The point is that this contract is supposedly below industry standard. Period. It would hurt us all if a subpar contract is voted in.

 

Just remember this gentlemen and Ladies,

After you read the entire TA, listen to the roadshows put on by the NC on how and why the TA is the way it is, take time to read the entire document, and still feel that the contract is subpar then vote no. If you feel that your pilot group needs to take a stand for contract carriers at a time when your entire company business model and how it conducts business with the Legacy carriers is changing due to the economics of the time and both public and airlines' BOD perception then go for it. But if you do it then I hope you are both tough and strong. You are going to need it.

Your route structure is already covered by both the other DCI carriers and mainline so your impact on the operation will be minimal at best IF You EVER GET RELEASED. Delta will have plenty of advance notice to any work action and be able to initially put one MD-88, DC-9, Airbus on any route you fly. Remember it's their route anyway that you are flying on their flight number so the argument for struck work does not apply. Then if you ever get released all they have to do is keep that flight and change the equipment to a larger airplane to maintain a level of adequate service. Not included ASA and all the other guys flying routes that will not be considered struck work.

I have heard in several conversations and posts that a lot of the FO's would be better working at Home Depot or something than working under a concessionary contract as you call it. Well I would start working on that application as a second option because if you are junior and at 9E and you vote the TA down you might need it.

I wish you the best but a lot of what I have heard on this board is rhetoric and heresay based on mindless talking points from "someone in the know". Good luck but remember to temper your actions with wisdom.

 

When the TA comes out- read it for yourself. I have many other ALPA regional carrier contracts if you want to compare to the "industry".