swaayze

Well, here's a little perspective. I've been around (I have left the nest, call me 5Co1Fur1Tu1wife), from 1900s to Eagle to a legacy and eventually back again, looks like permanently (and by choice). Eagle's a pretty darn good place to be IF you have some seniority in the left seat. Yes, it sucks for the right seaters, and is NOT the place to go if you want the quick up and out, but for guys like eaglefly or those of us with families who want to live in, say, DFW and are wearing out on chasing the (pipe?) dream it is a good job. Not sure what your contempt is stemming from, but Eagle works well for many of us, regardless of who "owns" the flying.

Not sure why you need to stand up in the cockpit, or why the p***er in the back is a problem (BSJS?). As a mid-seniority FO I routinely work 3 leg days on back to back 2-day trips with 13-15 days off. Occasionally I do a 5 leg day, but probably more often do a 1 leg day. Easily can fly 72 and have wanted/needed days off with my family or fly 95 and make a little extra as I see fit.

eaglefly

The problem with this, is that you are assuming then that just because YOU drew snake eyes at Eagle, that EVERYONE who is there or plans to stay (for whatever reason) is therefore missing out on something.

For aspiring pilots, I can see that it is a stepping stone as they have little invested. They also know virtually nothing of the sacrifices or history of those that have been here upwards of 15-20 years have made to TRY to make Eagle more then a stepping stone. It is some of these pilots that would happily advocate selling others sacrifices down the river for the mere PROMISE of something better for themselves. Actually these pilots aren't even AT Eagle, they are just sitting in a seat looking down the road, hoping and dreaming. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but it's not the philosophy that should guide our future.

Sadly, due to the lack of leadership and vision in the 2 major unions and the hopeless advesarial relationship of pilots to each other, the current path is all but certain to continue...........even intensify. Large RJ's will continue to expand especially as stand alone companies can now consider being their own carriers. The economics of 50-seat RJ's doomed those in the past, but another 50 seats with attractive labor costs (across the board) can change the unworkable to the possible and even probable.

More "branching out" is in the future (Eagle's president has all but admitted that desire) like RAH will occur and as more and more flying heads that way, more and more others will have to switch or quit. The major airline slots of the future will be few and far between and perhaps 2 out of 10 current regional pilots with those desires will actuall ever get a class date.

By default, many of the now young pilots will find themselves in 10 years at the same place like the current older and more senior RJ drivers are now......40ish (or older) with 10-15 years or more and a whole different perspective of shooting craps at the shaky bottom of a shrinking industry (Major airline domestic ops).

I can't fault your advice to aspiring pilots as it's the truth..........the right seat of a regional is a bad place to be for more then a few years and advancement and seniority are the only things that can justify staying at a regional and trading the possibility of a higher top end for the greater liklyhood of a smoother ride. If you factor in the compensation of a 20 year regional captain to that of a junior mainline pilot whose spent years on furlough (some coming up on a decade now), the regional pilot likely came out ahead by maintaining a decent pay level, schedule, 401(k) and family stability (depending on regional). UAL is furloughing 10th year pilots leaving survivors hanging on by their fingernails to enjoy being junior reserve on a 737 flying under a gutted contract that doesn't look much different than Eagle's. Those that get "lucky" (I guess) and get a UAL seat in 5-8 years after there furloughees are called back, will probably be just sliding into that at the next down-cycle to ride their own 2-10 year furlough. It's a real risk and many who shoot those dice and get a less then desirable result, will accept being a millwork clerk at Lowes for years for the possibility of getting back to that crashpad and 737. Others will wish they hadn't left what they took for granted.

Make sure you factor in that risk if you're leaving a E-170 (or 190) captans seat in 10 years to do it. If only the 2 unions identified the future 15 years ago and cultivated an atmosphere of inclusion and mutual support for EVERYONE's benefit, imagine where we could be now as a profession ?

Wherever that would have been, it could only be FAR better then where we are now................and that's "US AND THEM" and as long as pilots look at each other like that, our future is doomed to its current course.

eaglefly

Yes............some only see what appears to be a shabby nest from the outside and hopelessly tweet to others what a bad nest it is.

Isn't it interesting so many of those inside that nest are happy staying there ?

Given the look of the future (again an almost certainty), it appears that although this nest will have its upkeep issues, it will stay firmly in the tree and be valued even more by those that look at many of the other birds desperately fluttering around looking for a nest half as nice.

Sailor

So, if you are hire with AE you have to assume that your and your families' life's will suck for,

"SAY, 4, 5 0r 6 years" what is the up grade time running at now?,

I am sure that the top tear of AE is thankful that they have guys at the bottom putting up with 11-13 days off, 2700 a month, and right seat for 4, 5 or 6 yrs.

But wait, you do get to flow to AA, so things will get better, someday.
Does AE still use that carrot!!

2Co2Fur1EXwife

4,5 or 6?!? more like EIGHT, Sailor.

willflyforcash

It's actually 9 1/2 yrs right now.

What I find funny, is that you industry experts, don't even understand the concept of an "upgrade time". These guys who are 9 1/2 year FOs came here when the "upgrade time" was 18 months. UG time is simply history! It has zero reference to when you will actually UG. The only things that create vacancies are growth, deaths, retirements and firings. History is moot.

BTW, you know WN's "Upgrade time" is 8 years, meaning that you 18yr FOs at AA could have been mid-range WN CAs right now had you actually "left the nest" (2CO2Fur1Exwife)

Also, for you Sailor, how does the "top TIER" of APA feel about the B-Scale and scope relaxation?

Thanks for playing.

mwa1

better numbers - next 10 yrs. approx 200 reached 65. that means 200 upgrades IF Eagle stays the same size - my bet is that they downsize. Also, approx 100 out for sick leave or leaves of absence. The simplistic perspective of matching the longevity of the junior captain has no bearing on upgrade times period. I wish that if nothing else, our prognosticators would at least be armed with this knowledge.
Therefore, approx 300 upgrades in the next 10 yrs. barring increases in block hours which again has its limits. If a small window opens - don't pass up the upgrade, it could be years before it opens again.

Sailor

Not much of that at AE with those numbers. But you are getting more AC's, maybe there will be some movement.

Maybe RAH can help. I am sure they'll be ready to sing a deal with AMR as soon as AE blinks.

And I wouldn't know about the Scale and scope, I am not AA.

Anytime.

Cheers.

Sailor

Agreed. So it would not surprise us to see 10 to 12 years FO at AE. I am sure it is a great place to work, for the top 1000's.

2Co2Fur1EXwife

LMAO! 18 month upgrade at Eagle; what are you smoking? The whole industry knows the upgrade there is dreadful, but somehow Eagle manages to spin it and LIE to prospective employees. 9 1/2 yr....to upgrade to a turbo-prop......for less pay than a Jet Blue FO!