Republic etc
#111
Not a huge fan of ALPA either but an independent union doesn't really have a threat unless the pilot numbers are 5000+. Just don't have the revenue to generate a major contingency fund for a strike. The two benefits of ALPA are the best aeromedical doctors in the world and their huge war chest. It would take at least a 1.5% assessment for a couple years to bring the fund up enough to be a threat to management.
#112
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The problem is not with the IBT.
There are some at RAH who believe the EXCO remains loyal to Sowell and although they can't bring him back without cutting their own throats, they would rather dump the IBT out of pride and spite than work with the new leadership to capitalize on the opportunity created by his departure.
They have been completely ineffectual against an onslaught of rapid-succession provocations by the company and are silent with the exception of announcing the provocations promises that they are "on it."
All of the information we are getting about the integrations is coming from here, FI and the company. Well, that's not fair. They did make an official announcement that a meeting did in fact take place and that many things were in fact discussed.
The rank and file is getting angry and there are rumblings of an overthrow. Nobody is giving any details, but a few people are beating the drums. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that there is any plan in place to fill the void created should the "Anyone but IBT" platform succeed.
There is a distinct attempt on the part of the drum-beaters to ensure that IBT and Sowell remain connected, but there is a deafening silence when it comes to the unfortunate fact that the current EXCO enabled Sowell for years; some of them from the day he showed up on property. One of them was on the Local's board, repeatedly and consistently voting in favor of the shenanigans. It is rumored the Fed's are looking at this sitting EXCO member for perjury in a Federal suit connected to the takeover of the Local.
The whole thing smells like a 3 day old fish.
There are some at RAH who believe the EXCO remains loyal to Sowell and although they can't bring him back without cutting their own throats, they would rather dump the IBT out of pride and spite than work with the new leadership to capitalize on the opportunity created by his departure.
They have been completely ineffectual against an onslaught of rapid-succession provocations by the company and are silent with the exception of announcing the provocations promises that they are "on it."
All of the information we are getting about the integrations is coming from here, FI and the company. Well, that's not fair. They did make an official announcement that a meeting did in fact take place and that many things were in fact discussed.
The rank and file is getting angry and there are rumblings of an overthrow. Nobody is giving any details, but a few people are beating the drums. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that there is any plan in place to fill the void created should the "Anyone but IBT" platform succeed.
There is a distinct attempt on the part of the drum-beaters to ensure that IBT and Sowell remain connected, but there is a deafening silence when it comes to the unfortunate fact that the current EXCO enabled Sowell for years; some of them from the day he showed up on property. One of them was on the Local's board, repeatedly and consistently voting in favor of the shenanigans. It is rumored the Fed's are looking at this sitting EXCO member for perjury in a Federal suit connected to the takeover of the Local.
The whole thing smells like a 3 day old fish.
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 798
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The problem is not with the IBT.
There are some at RAH who believe the EXCO remains loyal to Sowell and although they can't bring him back without cutting their own throats, they would rather dump the IBT out of pride and spite than work with the new leadership to capitalize on the opportunity created by his departure.
They have been completely ineffectual against an onslaught of rapid-succession provocations by the company and are silent with the exception of announcing the provocations promises that they are "on it."
All of the information we are getting about the integrations is coming from here, FI and the company. Well, that's not fair. They did make an official announcement that a meeting did in fact take place and that many things were in fact discussed.
The rank and file is getting angry and there are rumblings of an overthrow. Nobody is giving any details, but a few people are beating the drums. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that there is any plan in place to fill the void created should the "Anyone but IBT" platform succeed.
There is a distinct attempt on the part of the drum-beaters to ensure that IBT and Sowell remain connected, but there is a deafening silence when it comes to the unfortunate fact that the current EXCO enabled Sowell for years; some of them from the day he showed up on property. One of them was on the Local's board, repeatedly and consistently voting in favor of the shenanigans. It is rumored the Fed's are looking at this sitting EXCO member for perjury in a Federal suit connected to the takeover of the Local.
The whole thing smells like a 3 day old fish.
There are some at RAH who believe the EXCO remains loyal to Sowell and although they can't bring him back without cutting their own throats, they would rather dump the IBT out of pride and spite than work with the new leadership to capitalize on the opportunity created by his departure.
They have been completely ineffectual against an onslaught of rapid-succession provocations by the company and are silent with the exception of announcing the provocations promises that they are "on it."
All of the information we are getting about the integrations is coming from here, FI and the company. Well, that's not fair. They did make an official announcement that a meeting did in fact take place and that many things were in fact discussed.
The rank and file is getting angry and there are rumblings of an overthrow. Nobody is giving any details, but a few people are beating the drums. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that there is any plan in place to fill the void created should the "Anyone but IBT" platform succeed.
There is a distinct attempt on the part of the drum-beaters to ensure that IBT and Sowell remain connected, but there is a deafening silence when it comes to the unfortunate fact that the current EXCO enabled Sowell for years; some of them from the day he showed up on property. One of them was on the Local's board, repeatedly and consistently voting in favor of the shenanigans. It is rumored the Fed's are looking at this sitting EXCO member for perjury in a Federal suit connected to the takeover of the Local.
The whole thing smells like a 3 day old fish.
Who is Sowell? Was the current EXCO voted into office?
Last edited by MD80; 10-22-2009 at 08:05 PM.
#114
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ALPA has good services and has the size to back any pilot group. But the only way I would vote for ALPA is if we hired a separate legal attorney to review all documents before signing. A number of the regionals are doing it ... Comair, Eagle, and a few more.
ALPA legal should have caught the poor "scope language" originally from American Eagle used at Midwest. It tells me ALPA wrote it or approved it at Eagle years ago. IBT legal wrote a much better scope section for Republic. Writing a strong/tight contract is more important then Aeromedical.
ALPA has not united the locals. You are only as good as your local leadership.
Last edited by MD80; 10-22-2009 at 08:24 PM.
#115
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Joined: Aug 2005
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ALPA (national) wrote the whole contract and the wording was inserted by AMR because ALPA was courting AA pilots to vote ALPA in and APA out. Eagle was the needed group to be thrown under the bus to show AA pilots that they will take care of the mainline guys always, except TWA, PAN AM, Eastern, etc; only the ones with big bucks get the true ALPA support.
#116
Gene Sowell was the President of Local 747 for years, and he was the legal counsel for the Local. High points of his career include the Horizon pilots contract, and the RAH contract scope language. Low points include everything else he ever did or promised to do. Earlier this year, Teamsters International locked out Gene Sowell, and high level union officers. The Local was placed under emergency trusteeship, and Gene Sowell was ousted. He is currently involved in a number of legal disputes that highlight his crooked tenure as head of the Local, including his financial improprieties. Ever wonder why the RAH EXCO doesn't get to go to as many meetings regarding integration or contract negotiations as you would expect? Sowell left RAH with a $160,000 debt in the assessment fund, which is where flight loss pay for the union members on union business comes from.
As for the EXCO, they have been staunch supporters of GS for all the years I have known them. In the absence of GS, they have only kept quiet, and have not lashed out at him or his actions. The EXCO was elected, and they do face reelection next year. The problem in electing our EXCO over the years has been in the eligibility rules for participating. You all know that the vast majority of the RAH pilot group has been around for less than five years. Back at the last election, well over half the group was not eligible based on years of service alone.
Then, you have to look at the lifestyle of the remaining eligible pilots. Generally the senior pilots of a company make up the union leadership. At the major airlines and certain regionals like Eagle and Comair, you have a decent supply of senior pilots who are settled and comfortable in their personal lives. At younger companies like RAH, the senior pilots are often just having kids and getting their families started, and cannot fully devote themselves to union business. So, those pilots don't run for office.
During the previous elections, there were no union offices in a RAH base. Since then, offices have been opened in Indianapolis, a decent sized base for all three RAH certificates. The time required to even travel to union meetings was a big setback for those considering a run for office, and often was a deal breaker. Hopefully the IND offices encourage a few more to run.
There have been a number of good leaders who were either on the EXCO or wanted to be over the years, but their defiance to the then-current way of doing things was met with threats and intimidation.
The point is, yes our EXCO is elected, but in the past our "choice" was to pick four candidates from a pool of five or six. The job is unattractive, most everyone did not want to be associated with Gene Sowell, and any hint of change was beaten down by those in office (but not really, there is no proof...we would never lead a campaign like that...). Our past elections have basically been reduced to picking the lesser of the listed evils. One particular Sowell-supporter who continues to run is constantly not reelected, but that generally leaves us with the same four or five names to choose from, of which four get the job.
When next year comes around, a lot more pilots will be eligible to run for the EXCO, and I certainly hope that some of the new additions to our list (Midwest, Frontier pilots) will be eligible and willing to run. The short of it is, if the same bunch of knuckleheads gets reelected next year, the push to oust Teamsters will go ahead. Our leadership is on thin ice, and we as the pilot group are sick of their secrecy and empty threats to management. We know that your union is as strong as the pilots. The pilots we have now are strong, and many more of them are finally able to take the reigns. I have been asked by a few people to step up, and I am seriously looking into it. Am I the best man for the job? Who knows. But I am certainly better than what's in office now.
As for the EXCO, they have been staunch supporters of GS for all the years I have known them. In the absence of GS, they have only kept quiet, and have not lashed out at him or his actions. The EXCO was elected, and they do face reelection next year. The problem in electing our EXCO over the years has been in the eligibility rules for participating. You all know that the vast majority of the RAH pilot group has been around for less than five years. Back at the last election, well over half the group was not eligible based on years of service alone.
Then, you have to look at the lifestyle of the remaining eligible pilots. Generally the senior pilots of a company make up the union leadership. At the major airlines and certain regionals like Eagle and Comair, you have a decent supply of senior pilots who are settled and comfortable in their personal lives. At younger companies like RAH, the senior pilots are often just having kids and getting their families started, and cannot fully devote themselves to union business. So, those pilots don't run for office.
During the previous elections, there were no union offices in a RAH base. Since then, offices have been opened in Indianapolis, a decent sized base for all three RAH certificates. The time required to even travel to union meetings was a big setback for those considering a run for office, and often was a deal breaker. Hopefully the IND offices encourage a few more to run.
There have been a number of good leaders who were either on the EXCO or wanted to be over the years, but their defiance to the then-current way of doing things was met with threats and intimidation.
The point is, yes our EXCO is elected, but in the past our "choice" was to pick four candidates from a pool of five or six. The job is unattractive, most everyone did not want to be associated with Gene Sowell, and any hint of change was beaten down by those in office (but not really, there is no proof...we would never lead a campaign like that...). Our past elections have basically been reduced to picking the lesser of the listed evils. One particular Sowell-supporter who continues to run is constantly not reelected, but that generally leaves us with the same four or five names to choose from, of which four get the job.
When next year comes around, a lot more pilots will be eligible to run for the EXCO, and I certainly hope that some of the new additions to our list (Midwest, Frontier pilots) will be eligible and willing to run. The short of it is, if the same bunch of knuckleheads gets reelected next year, the push to oust Teamsters will go ahead. Our leadership is on thin ice, and we as the pilot group are sick of their secrecy and empty threats to management. We know that your union is as strong as the pilots. The pilots we have now are strong, and many more of them are finally able to take the reigns. I have been asked by a few people to step up, and I am seriously looking into it. Am I the best man for the job? Who knows. But I am certainly better than what's in office now.
#118
When next year comes around, a lot more pilots will be eligible to run for the EXCO, and I certainly hope that some of the new additions to our list (Midwest, Frontier pilots) will be eligible and willing to run. The short of it is, if the same bunch of knuckleheads gets reelected next year, the push to oust Teamsters will go ahead. Our leadership is on thin ice, and we as the pilot group are sick of their secrecy and empty threats to management. We know that your union is as strong as the pilots. The pilots we have now are strong, and many more of them are finally able to take the reigns. I have been asked by a few people to step up, and I am seriously looking into it. Am I the best man for the job? Who knows. But I am certainly better than what's in office now.
For starters, you are not convincing Frontier/Lynx/Midwest pilots to stay with IBT. No way in hell. They way the IBT has been dealing with them during this purchase? Hahah...laughable at best. The IBT has been peeing on a large group of pilots soon to be on our seniority list.
Secondly, the IBT and its EXCO have been peeing on our group for years. Well guess what? With all 4 pilot groups coming together on one seniority list, the IBT doesn't stand a chance in hell of staying in place.
The IBT disease has run its course at Republic, and the only good thing it left behind was a scope clause. The IBT is weak, powerless and easily intimidated by RAH management. It has no place in our combined company any longer, and there are plenty of us that will be surging forward to make sure that when the dust settles, the IBT will be without its largest pilot group.
And FWIW, once the integration team signs their contract, it doesn't matter what union represents all of us, because it won't effect the integration. But once the integration is finished - we need a contract, and an industry leading one at that. I will walk off this job and not come back if I have to fly a 190 for these payrates.
#119
Sorry buddy, but I hope (and believe) that election will happen sooner and under a different umbrella.
For starters, you are not convincing Frontier/Lynx/Midwest pilots to stay with IBT. No way in hell. They way the IBT has been dealing with them during this purchase? Hahah...laughable at best. The IBT has been peeing on a large group of pilots soon to be on our seniority list.
Secondly, the IBT and its EXCO have been peeing on our group for years. Well guess what? With all 4 pilot groups coming together on one seniority list, the IBT doesn't stand a chance in hell of staying in place.
The IBT disease has run its course at Republic, and the only good thing it left behind was a scope clause. The IBT is weak, powerless and easily intimidated by RAH management. It has no place in our combined company any longer, and there are plenty of us that will be surging forward to make sure that when the dust settles, the IBT will be without its largest pilot group.
And FWIW, once the integration team signs their contract, it doesn't matter what union represents all of us, because it won't effect the integration. But once the integration is finished - we need a contract, and an industry leading one at that. I will walk off this job and not come back if I have to fly a 190 for these payrates.
For starters, you are not convincing Frontier/Lynx/Midwest pilots to stay with IBT. No way in hell. They way the IBT has been dealing with them during this purchase? Hahah...laughable at best. The IBT has been peeing on a large group of pilots soon to be on our seniority list.
Secondly, the IBT and its EXCO have been peeing on our group for years. Well guess what? With all 4 pilot groups coming together on one seniority list, the IBT doesn't stand a chance in hell of staying in place.
The IBT disease has run its course at Republic, and the only good thing it left behind was a scope clause. The IBT is weak, powerless and easily intimidated by RAH management. It has no place in our combined company any longer, and there are plenty of us that will be surging forward to make sure that when the dust settles, the IBT will be without its largest pilot group.
And FWIW, once the integration team signs their contract, it doesn't matter what union represents all of us, because it won't effect the integration. But once the integration is finished - we need a contract, and an industry leading one at that. I will walk off this job and not come back if I have to fly a 190 for these payrates.
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