Airline Pilot Central Forums - XJT undercut AWAC?

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and here starts another wonderful, fight between two pilot groups about who screwed whom....boy it never ends and I will not miss 121....

I'm an Air Wisconsin pilot and I personally congratulate XJT guys on this flying. I have no hard feelings towards any of them.

To be honest; I and MANY AWAC pilots wanted this more than anything. I commute from DSM to DCA through ORD so you can see why. If not us, I'm glad it's you guys. I have lots of friends at XJT and after close review of your contract I feel XJT deserves this flying.

If anyone wants to see the very thing that United did to Air Wisconsin in 2003-2005 take a look at XJT. CAL has been whipsawing CHQ and Colgan against XJT for a few years now and it needs to END! The undercutting of wages, benefits, and overall QOL at CHQ and Colgan will forever have an impact on all XJT crews.

IMHO ExpressJet did not undercut Air Wisconsin

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMEarc (Post 712511)

Congrats to XJT, first off.

Time to play devils advocate.

ExpressJet guys are always in a hurry to slam anyone for undercutting them- CHQ, CJC, and UCA.

But-

Can you guys defend how your concessionary contract undercut AWAC (who is also operating under a concessionary contract)?

Newarkblows, Clocks? Biggest whiners on the board...lets hear it.

At first glance, this thread appeared to me nothing more than flame-bait the mods will yank faster than a Ben Affleck movie's theater run.

But wait...on closer inspection, DMEarc may well have pulled off the genius move of the year. With a sucker move that would make Cashius Clay envious, all the thread-hijackers will flock to this thread like the salmon of Capistrano. Now AirWillie, GoAround, FlyASA, SkyHigh, etc., can duke it out ad-infinitum while the rest go about with thoughtful, sometimes humorous debate! Sheer Brilliance!!

My hat's off to you sir! (okay...I really never wore the hat much to begin with)

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyerfly (Post 712538)

If not us, I'm glad it's you guys. I have lots of friends at XJT and after close review of your contract I feel XJT deserves this flying.

That's exactly the sentiment that was posted on the expressjet pilots forum when we found out awac was in the running somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightIP (Post 712518)

Oh heeeeere we go. Resident "XJT stole my flying" guy.

Huh? I'm an ex-Colgan, CAL furloughee.

Many of my arguments are for mainline taking back flying. But this regional vs. regional war has got to stop. XJT isn't any better than AWAC isn't any better than ASA isn't better than Cape Air.

Can't put SKYW in there because they don't care about thier futures as evident by their 35% ALPA vote.

Now to your point....
I argue much on behalf of th
e Colgan guys simply because they really get a bad rap from XJT for stealing flying. It isn't ANY regionals flying to begin with. PERIOD. You're managements' lease it from the mainline carrier. End of story.

But again- if any carrier should have won the flying...it should have been AWAC or XJT.

Sad thing is our company has not said a word about it. I wish they would have the nutz to say it's over....or IS IT?!?!?!?!?

No...it's over...

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirWillie (Post 712520)

Most likely but it was necessary for them You can't blame management they're already losing money on airplanes. Best of luck to Expressjet pilots and hopefully this can actually bring some of the furloughed back so there's movement out there. Still, Expressjet will be flying this at a loss which is not good for anyone except UA. There is no way they can underbid TSA, it's an impossibility. TSA has at least 20-30% cheaper operating costs. That is why UA signed them on after TSA said no and after AWAC refused to take pay cuts for the flying. Obviously nothing wrong with this, better use of idling airplanes and pilots but to say that Expressjet is a beacon of hope over all others is not very realistic considering the latest fad for regionals it pay to play for new flying.

As far as TSA, I never believed they would get this flying. This was WAY too big for TSA, the usual big time heavy event at TSA is when they're able to borrow 1 or 2 airplanes from another regional for the summer.

As usual you're managing to speculate on that which you do not know anything about. First, show me the terms of the agreement where it actually shows that we're doing this flying at a loss. Everything that has been released or communicated to us today indicate that the final details of the CPA are still pending. Second when comparing apples to apples the XJT and AWAC contract are pretty even. AWAC does have a few provisions that we don't have, but we're both above average by leaps and bounds particularly when you compare it to 70 seat operators that pay 50 seat wages, and/or have subpar contracts.

As I mentioned earlier today, the only losers here today are J.O., Hulas, Bedford and the likes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clocks (Post 712521)

I know xjet's pilot pay is untouched by this and the xjt concessionary pay/contract are very competitive with awacs concessionary pay/contracts.

That is a pretty contradictory statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck (Post 712566)

That is a pretty contradictory statement.

No, it's not. XJT didn't take additional concessions to secure the UAL flying. XJT took concessions after they'd (we'd) lost the Delta and Branded flying, and faced large block hour reductions from CAL.

Let me say this again: The XJT pilot group has not been approached for additional pay cuts to secure this flying.

Don't listen to DMEArc. As a former Colgan pilot, he has had a hard-on for XJT for awhile now.

I quote from a previous, now locked thread: "ExpressJet sucks...You're the reason I'm furloughed."

Nice try...DMEArc. Go stir the pot somewhere else.

And for the record, XJT did not take any concessions to secure this flying. I truly hope AWAC can secure some flying soon.