I think there needs to be more barriers to entry than that, including a 4 year degree and 21 years old for the right seat. (cue all the guys who shunned everybody's advice and got into this without a degree)

 

How many of the last generation actually researched the industry to understand what was going on or at least read "Flying the Line" to get a grasp of reality, instead of being blinded by the stories of good times and fat paychecks?

 

I couldn't agree more. I have actually sent letters to the Congressional Aviation Sub-Comittee requesting to add the Bachelors Degree requirement to the ATP (thereby requiring all FAR 121 pilots to have a four year degree). I was politely brushed off with an email that talked about the economy and the ATA.... basically telling me that pilots would be too powerfull and too well paid like lawyers and doctors to actually make quality substantive change.
Funny how its fine for the government to require me to have a bachelors degree to fly one of thier airplanes but as far as thier concerned, I could have a GED to fly for and airline.
I truley wish that ALPA and all legacy carriers would try to push this. Thats the only thing that ever seems to give anything traction.

 

There is no causal relationship, that is the problem. A guy with an online internet college degree in "whatever" likely just did it as background noise to his fight training in order to check the box, as compared to someone who went to school and majored in chemical engineering or something else similarly challenging.

I have a hard time with the idea of going to a 4 year school to major in aviation. However, as a weed out factor, perhaps this is the best answer if we are going to implement an education requirement.

 

Of course there is a sense of entitlement. The last few years hiring has been free for all, plus it was happening in an economy that had no foundation and was about to collapse. No body stopped to think if it was the norm. Hey, is it normal that I'm flying thousands of unsuspecting people in a JET at 300 hours? I guess it is because they're hiring me. There is a sense of entitlement in this generation. That's a good thing to have for the future though. It's all about the airline cycle, if you do a search every doomsday post that is made now has been made before on every previous down cycle. It's nothing new, things will pick up again.

 

On blastoff's cue...
Really? You think that a person who spent 4 years studying under water basket weaving will be a better pilot? I won't lie the life skills I learned in college will be with me forever, but you can get other life skills working a full time job for 4 years. You still learn the basics - time management, responsibility, hierarchies, and interpersonal skills.
So the freight dawg who after high school, busted tables at 5.15/hour to save up for his commercial, finally landed that back side of the clock gig and now 10 years later, has about 5,000 hours and 4,000 ME PIC wouldn't be qualified for the job?
I know the new law would require ATP mins, but what would having a BS really solve? Why not require a BS for the regionals and a Master's for majors?
To actually tie back to the OP, I have seen very little sense of entitlement in the aviation industry. What I've seen the MOST is the "because I had to walk uphill both ways in the snow to school, so should you!" Maybe I should make a post about that...

 

Skyhigh, I find it strange that you mention in this thread pilots should have a better career in aviation.

"Should we all not set high expectations for our careers and hold the industry to it?"

And yet you are a proponent of Pay for Job programs that do nothing other than make the career worse. I mean, why should airlines pay better when people are willing to pay for a job? You make no sense....

"Why not buy a job if you have the money? Who made these rules anyway?"

"The only pilots that care about pay to play are those who are on the rungs below. No one else really cares. The FAA does not care. Future employers really do not care. The customers do not care."

"If someone can create an opportunity for themselves using a check book then why is that so wrong?"
It seems to me that only those who perceive an unfair advantage are the ones to get hot under the collar.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pa...c-program.html

 

He would be grandfathered in.

But it wasn't a very good career plan. Sounds like he feels entitled even though he did something against the advice of nearly every person who has flown for a living. A little reckless even. Going forward, who in their right mind does that anyways? These are the people we don't want speaking for us at the next contract negotiation.

Heck why require a High School diploma then?

Answer: We're talking about restoring the profession and we need to have a baseline education level, whether you study Basketweaving at Internet U, or went to State and studied engineering.

If it's that easy, then why all the fuss about making it a requirement?

And yes, the average college grad is a better candidate to succeed in this profession versus one who is not. Notice I said average...there are plenty of exceptional pilots without degrees, but they made their own bed, knowing full well the degree requirement has existed on and off throughout the modern history of Airline hiring. They also knew they would be competing for jobs against military pilots, 99% of which have a Bachelors, many with a Masters. Though like I said, if a rule was made in the future, they would have to be grandfathered in.

 

Yes, what he said. Beat me to it, dadgummit!!!

 

As long as we don't run out of oil. Unlike global warming, this issue is not a conspiracy theory, it is an obvious fact. The only question is When?

If you are young, better consider that. There are technical solutions to that problem, but our national leaders have been slow to develop these, for a variety of political and economic reasons. We cannot even get a reasonably believable estimate of how much is left...everyone who has the means to come up with such an estimate also has a possible motive to skew the results.

Our industry leaders, not surprisingly, have taken a stance which bears a striking resemblance to a large, flightless bird. Of course none of them even plan to be around in 5-7 years, so why worry

When oil prices skyrocket for real, we had better have an alternative infrastructure already in place or the economic damage will end this profession for most of us. Things will recover eventually, there are enough alternatives, but it could take decades.