Entitlement
12-03-2009 | 11:25 AM
#22
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 244
Likes: 1
Furthermore, being a pilot is not the same as being a doctor or a lawyer or even an engineer. With the funding problem resolved, one could go from zero to commercial pilot, CFI, II, MEI and several hundred hours logged within a single year. Med school and law school, by comparison, take significantly longer and a much greater investment.
Before I started looking at the profession I assumed that all airline pilots were required to have a degree. When I found out this was not a requirement I assumed that all pilots would likely have a degree anyway. In my experience at a regional only a minority of pilots have degrees. Even then I assumed pilots would have a level of intellect on par with that of doctors and lawyers but I have again found that not to be the case.
It seems we have dumbed down the profession to the point where the public just views us as over paid bus drivers. If you let any Tom, Dick or Harry become a pilot is it any wonder that the pay has degraded to what it is now? We will never regain that lost respect but requiring a degree will be a step in the right direction.
I'd like to see a requirement for all 121 pilots to have a degree not because it would make them better pilots but because it sets a minimum level of intellect.
12-03-2009 | 11:28 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
Pilots today are often accused of having a sense of entitlement. Critics claim that they seem to have an unbalanced expectation that soon after training they would earn a good living and start out flying their hearts desire.
I can not see as how that is a bad thing. Shouldn't we all have a sense of entitlement? It takes a big cash and life investment to become a professional pilot. Should we all not set high expectations for our careers and hold the industry to it?
I went to college in the late 1980's. Times were good then for pilots. Airlines were hiring. Classmates who had graduated just a year or two prior would commonly return to campus with their TWA, Braniff or Pan Am uniform in a garment bag folder over their forearm. After a quick change in a closet the uniformed pilot would then be escorted into the nearest class interrupting the lecture in progress so that the valiant young airline hero could share tales of his airline life and explain why he went with the hard top corvette instead of the convertible.
We all expected to get hired at a major airline within a few years of graduation. No one suggested that we would be received by the industry any differently. Had we known what our generation of pilots faced I am sure that those speeches would have been given to empty classrooms.
I can empathize with pilots who were sitting in class a few years ago while recent graduates immediately went on to the regional of their choice. Now graduation the latest generation of pilots are dealing with the shock of a very different reception. In their backlash they are labeled as having an "entitlement" attitude and why shouldn't they? Aviation is not a religion it is an investment.
Skyhigh
I can not see as how that is a bad thing. Shouldn't we all have a sense of entitlement? It takes a big cash and life investment to become a professional pilot. Should we all not set high expectations for our careers and hold the industry to it?
I went to college in the late 1980's. Times were good then for pilots. Airlines were hiring. Classmates who had graduated just a year or two prior would commonly return to campus with their TWA, Braniff or Pan Am uniform in a garment bag folder over their forearm. After a quick change in a closet the uniformed pilot would then be escorted into the nearest class interrupting the lecture in progress so that the valiant young airline hero could share tales of his airline life and explain why he went with the hard top corvette instead of the convertible.
We all expected to get hired at a major airline within a few years of graduation. No one suggested that we would be received by the industry any differently. Had we known what our generation of pilots faced I am sure that those speeches would have been given to empty classrooms.
I can empathize with pilots who were sitting in class a few years ago while recent graduates immediately went on to the regional of their choice. Now graduation the latest generation of pilots are dealing with the shock of a very different reception. In their backlash they are labeled as having an "entitlement" attitude and why shouldn't they? Aviation is not a religion it is an investment.
Skyhigh
12-03-2009 | 12:44 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,244
Likes: 0
From: CL-65 captain
Pilots today are often accused of having a sense of entitlement. Critics claim that they seem to have an unbalanced expectation that soon after training they would earn a good living and start out flying their hearts desire.
I can not see as how that is a bad thing. Shouldn't we all have a sense of entitlement? It takes a big cash and life investment to become a professional pilot. Should we all not set high expectations for our careers and hold the industry to it?
Skyhigh
I can not see as how that is a bad thing. Shouldn't we all have a sense of entitlement? It takes a big cash and life investment to become a professional pilot. Should we all not set high expectations for our careers and hold the industry to it?
Skyhigh
Here are the examples of entitlement that are hurting our industry...
1. *****ing that you had to sit reserve for more than 3 months as a new hire.
2. *****ing that 2000 hours total time is waaay to high to upgrade. You are a good pilot and know you are fully competent at 950 hours, since you must be "the best of the best" since you got hired to fly people in a jet at 300 hours, while it took us slow learners 1500-3000 hours to get hired.
3. *****ing that you had to wait a whopping 2 1/2 years to upgrade. Dang senior guys hogging the left seat! Move on losers!
4. Saying you WILL be a regional CA in 2 years and at FEDEX/UPS in 4 years......no need to actually pass upgrade and actually interview at the big boys.....they will come calling you as soon as you hit 1000 TPIC.
5. Walking on the beach during spring break in Daytona barefoot with your "pilot" shirt and "epaulettes" on to pick up teen girls....
6. Looking cool in the terminal wearing sunglasses, leather jackets in summer, ipod, and blue backpack complete with skateboard attached to the pack.
Some of this generation thinks that they are the only pilots in the history of aviation to sit reserve, not upgrade after 2 years, be paid less than $25/ hour, be furloughed etc.
I often have 1st year FO's tell me I don't know what it's like living on $21/hour FO pay. I tell them you're right, I was on $13.96-$18 1st year FO pay. And not too long ago.....
12-03-2009 | 12:49 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,755
Likes: 6
It's all about perspective I guess.
12-03-2009 | 02:36 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
12-03-2009 | 02:38 PM
#28
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
There is no causal relationship, that is the problem. A guy with an online internet college degree in "whatever" likely just did it as background noise to his fight training in order to check the box, as compared to someone who went to school and majored in chemical engineering or something else similarly challenging.
I have a hard time with the idea of going to a 4 year school to major in aviation. However, as a weed out factor, perhaps this is the best answer if we are going to implement an education requirement.
I have a hard time with the idea of going to a 4 year school to major in aviation. However, as a weed out factor, perhaps this is the best answer if we are going to implement an education requirement.
As far as the comment/attitude on pilots being beneath others because they lack a degree. Dude, get off your holier than though rant. I can't say what I'd really like to about that crap mentality. A lot of people have real world experience that more than surpass what ever you payed for in college to apply to aviation.
12-03-2009 | 02:44 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,585
Likes: 328
There are some good ideas in this thread. I wish pilots were required to have a bachelor's degree. It is a way to weed people out thus decreasing supply. That in turn gives us more leverage which means more money. It would also make these web boards a little more tolerable. The grammar and spelling of my fellow pilots is atrocious.
12-03-2009 | 04:15 PM
#30
Thread Starter
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Everyone pays
Skyhigh, I find it strange that you mention in this thread pilots should have a better career in aviation.
"Should we all not set high expectations for our careers and hold the industry to it?"
And yet you are a proponent of Pay for Job programs that do nothing other than make the career worse. I mean, why should airlines pay better when people are willing to pay for a job? You make no sense....
"Why not buy a job if you have the money? Who made these rules anyway?"
"The only pilots that care about pay to play are those who are on the rungs below. No one else really cares. The FAA does not care. Future employers really do not care. The customers do not care."
"If someone can create an opportunity for themselves using a check book then why is that so wrong?"
It seems to me that only those who perceive an unfair advantage are the ones to get hot under the collar.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pa...c-program.html
"Should we all not set high expectations for our careers and hold the industry to it?"
And yet you are a proponent of Pay for Job programs that do nothing other than make the career worse. I mean, why should airlines pay better when people are willing to pay for a job? You make no sense....
"Why not buy a job if you have the money? Who made these rules anyway?"
"The only pilots that care about pay to play are those who are on the rungs below. No one else really cares. The FAA does not care. Future employers really do not care. The customers do not care."
"If someone can create an opportunity for themselves using a check book then why is that so wrong?"
It seems to me that only those who perceive an unfair advantage are the ones to get hot under the collar.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pa...c-program.html
It makes more sense to me to buy time from a 135 operator. Not only are you getting the experience for less but it makes for better resume fodder as well.
Skyhigh
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
alfaromeo
Mergers and Acquisitions
12
01-18-2009 08:14 PM
