Originally Posted by Dirty Rat

I don't want to hear that attitude from you when you are cranking my gear. The YX and F9 pilots do deserve higher. Why? None of us asked to work for your company. You bought us, you bought our experience and seniority. Deal with it Son.

Originally Posted by frankwasright

Thank god you're not an arbitrator ! More like a straight-up traitor ! Get off your knees and quit apologizing to the Mighty YX pilots ! So they hitched their wagons to a dying star-too bad,so sad.The "entitlement mentality" is all over this one-they "put in their time",so they're automatically "entitled" to all the capt. slots ? BS ! We don't have a national seniority list,in case you haven't heard,so that argument doesn't fly.Please publicly identify yourself,so you are never elected to any union position. Do you honestly think because somebody works/worked at YX/F9 they should all be senior to you ? Ever hear of "Stockholm syndrome" ? Try doing this and it will be "Nic 2010-The Sequel".How much did all that experience buy the TWA guys at AA ? Hmmm ?

Originally Posted by Sniper

This post was a good start, but career expectations leave one group 'holding the bag' in this proposal - the senior FO's of Midwest and Frontier. The RAH and Lynx CA's had career expectations to fly 175's and Q-400's, respectively. The most junior FO @ Midwest or Frontier had career expectations to fly nothing smaller than a 717 or A-318 (and it can be generally assumed that, career wise, every guy @ Midwest or Frontier was a mid-level CA @ a regional prior to going to Midwest or Frontier). The above post recognized that RAH and Lynx CA's would have first dibs on Airbus and 190 CA seats as being an issue, and I just wanted to identify the reasoning under Allegheny Mohawk that is applicable.

The solution? Hard to say. Maybe go with the above proposed integration, but offer super seniority (ahead of any RAH or Lynx CA) to the former YX and F9 FO's for the purposes of bidding the left seat of aircraft larger than an E-175 only. RAH FO's expected to get the chance to bid to a large fleet of E-175 and smaller jets as most of the RAH CA's left for bigger and better airlines, and shouldn't watch as their upgrade goes to a YX or F9 FO who expected to sit in the right seat for at least 5-7 years minimum waiting for a left seat. So, make the F9 and YX FO's wait it out for the left seat of any jet (can't go to the left seat of any jet until an opening in the left seat of a EMB-175+ aircraft opens up), while the RAH and Lynx FO's don't have to wait it out, but won't be able to bid into large aircraft they never expected to see on property either. The RAH and Lynx CA's then get to either sit in the seat they're in now (all they expected to get prior to the merger), or they can go to the right seat (or even the left seat) of something larger than a 175 only if the YX and F9 FO's pass up on the opportunity first, preferring to go to the smaller equipment (E-175 and below) for whatever reason. Ultimately, the guys who benefit most are the young RAH and Lynx CA's who, if they stay and RAH/F9/YX sustains itself, will end up as the senior pilots in the company as the older YX and F9 CA's retire, never having to suffer going back to the bottom of the list as an FO at the 'bigger and better' company - be a line holding CA on the E-175 waiting for the left seat of the Airbus instead of sitting reserve as an FO on the Airbus. Of course, if you stay, the whole company could go under too. With risk comes reward. I guess everyone but the RAH guys benefit/lose some too, as they didn't expect to get access to all the bases and opportunities of this new firm, but didn't expect to potentially be based anywhere but DEN or MKE (is this a gain or a loss, depends on whether you went to your firm primarily for the base, which many did. If so, welcome to the integration party, hope you enjoy the left seat of an RJ in Indy!).

Anyway, this all makes sense to me, and seems to preserve the good start that 'Rightseat Ballast' made, while protecting the career expectations of everyone a bit better. I'm sure I screwed it up somewhere (base protection issues, for starters), so, please, feel free to improve upon it (or throw it out completely) - on an internet forum, I would expect nothing less.

In my dreams, this thread actually yields something positive and the arbitrator or union folks actually take it seriously.

Originally Posted by frankwasright

Try doing this and it will be "Nic 2010-The Sequel".How much did all that experience buy the TWA guys at AA ? Hmmm ?

Originally Posted by Dirty Rat

I don't want to hear that attitude from you when you are cranking my gear. The YX and F9 pilots do deserve higher. Why? None of us asked to work for your company. You bought us, you bought our experience and seniority. Deal with it Son.

Originally Posted by Rightseat Ballast

Well, if you actually slow down and read my post, you will see that in no way did my theoretical proposal put all YX and F9 pilots at the top of the list, nor would all be entitled to captain spots. And as for Stockholm syndrome, that entails sympathizing with your captor/oppressor, and YX and F9 are in no way captors in this whole mess. Fairness requires empathy to some degree, and I am not apologetic for that.

Originally Posted by frankwasright

Bwahah ! Dream on ! I'm in the upper 10%,so you may be snatching MY gear,SON ! You didn't ask to work here-ok,so resign your seniority and move on.

Originally Posted by frankwasright

Actually,you did-right here:

"That is how the top of the list would look. Mostly Midwest and Frontier guys at the top, with the eldest RAH lifers speckled in. In general though, RAH and Lynx captains would be beneath Midwest and frontier captains. "

Unacceptable.No way,no how.YX was within days of shutting down,so THAT was your "career expectations"-unemployment.To do otherwise is a "windfall" for YX pilots and we will not have it.Frontier,not so much,but they WERE in bankruptcy.I'm well aware of "Stockholm Syndrome"-YX pilots bash your pilot group daily and you say "Oh,please Mr. YX pilot,have my seniority,you deserve it ! I'm just a po' lil' regional pylette !" Bull !