We need to make up a language and talk to each other in our new, made up language. Or just get wifi and IM each other. Or better yet, a nationwide strike.

 

if this goes thru, everyone just walk off the job - screw them all. period.

 

I wish we had the solidarity as an industry as a whole to do that.

 

It is easy to contact your Congressman or Senator.

Visit this website

https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

or this one

Contact Elected Officials: USA.gov

and just do a little digging and send them your thoughts.

Jeffrey

 

I am going to start by saying i do not want this bill to pass.
But would like to point out how funny it is reading a couple peoples post here that are against this one but for the ATP to be an FO bill. They are for that one because it should help safety in keeping low time pilots out of the right seat. Ok i see that argument they are about safety but then i come here and that same person says dont pass this bill. But this bill could (might) improve safety because we would all have to follow the sterile cockpit rule. (which i know we all do already) It is funny that some safety stuff is ok but not all. In my opinion it is because we are not picking sides just because of safety the other bill has a chance to create a barrier of entry thus cutting supply of pilots good for pilots paycheck (theoretically) this bill invades our privacy on the flight deck so now pilots are against it even though it will make us fly by the book. If you are not doing anything wrong you would have nothing to fear with this bill. I am just pointing this out i am not trying to make this flamebait i just want you guys to fess up that are hiding behind that your opinion is purely because of safety because a lot of it is not.

Once again i am along with my other pilots on whether i want these passed or not. I dont want this one because i am not a child and i dont think we need to have someone over our shoulder. Nothing to do with safety the other bill i want passed because yes it should help safety but it will also lower my competition for my next job. I am able to admit it, can you?

If we want to improve safety we need to change the culture of flying/management. Regionals get paid to complete a flight dont you think that will make our companies put pressure to get the flight out. then we are also pressured to be on time. The list goes on and on.

 

If the CVR reviews were to ONLY be used for safety purposes then I would agree with you. It seems to me that many argue on this forum that it would be a tool that could be (would be?) abused by management. For some reason management gets a hair up its craw against tom14cat14 and decides that s/he isn't being a team player. They decide to pull the last 10 flights and finds one instance, maybe even out of context, where tom14cat14 broke sterile and uses that as an excuse to fire him/her. Is that improving safety?
Is anyone out there in the aviation industry against the anonymous safety programs?

USMCFLYR

 

I do agree it is a bad thing to have i just hate how so many people are saying this is purely bad because it hurts safety. To me that is not the only reason most of us do not want it. I agree it can hurt safety because management would use it against us but i think another big reason we do not want it is because we want to be able to talk about whatever we want and not worry about management here everything we say. I guess we could twist it even more for safety because we all will be falling asleep because no one will talk during cruise about personal things so management cant use it against us.

 

If anyone thinks this is about sterile cockpit....guess again. I agree, a level of professionalism is needed....and all rules/regs must be followed. But, I just have one word for you:

Tenerife

On March 27, 1977 two 747's collided on the runway at Tenerife. It was between Pan Am and KLM. The KLM was Captained by a very Senior Captain. He had two junior officers with him serving as FO and SO. The Captain initiated a takeoff role without clearance. The FO spoke up and the Captain aborted the takeoff. While the FO was obtaining a ROUTE clearance (not a takeoff clearance), the Captain again initiated a takeoff role and the rest is history....over 580 dead. The FO did not dare to question the Senior Captain twice! It cost him his life and 582 others their life.

This is not the only time an accident has happened because of a crewmember not speaking up! After Tenerife...we saw a dramatic shift towrds CRM. CRM was Cemented with the accident of a United DC-10 in Souix City a decade later, on July 19, 1989, where the Captain saved 184 lives by using CRM.

CRM WORKS! And it works because of the freedom to communicate (as a crew) in the cockpit.

If this law passes, we are going back to the pre-CRM days. It will only be a matter of time before an accident happens. And then another...and then another.

And it is too bad that this is happening because one Senetor wants to "bust" airline unions. Pro or con...this is not the right way to solve any of our problems.

This law will not make sure people adhere to a sterile cockpit....or fall asleep in the cockpit.....it is about someone fearing to open his/her mouth when something looks wrong....because somebody may get in trouble from management (if they decide to review the recorder). Having people second guess saying something will lead to disaster....history will repeat itself!

 

You are missing the point. The CVR was sold to the airlines, the pilots and the public as a way to assist in accident investigations. The holdup to it in the first place was the arguement that at some point somebody woudl want to listen to them at times other than accidents under the guise of improving safety. These things were all discussed at the original implemntation, and everybody who wanted them firmly stated they would never be used in any capacity other than post accident investigations. Otherwise these things would never have made it into the cockpit.

Now, zip forward a few decades and now they want to use them to anonymously check for compliance and safety issues...

zip forward a few decades and they will want to listen to them to determine which pilots have poor attitudes which could pose a threat to safety.

Think that's an exageration? I'm sure if you asked the average citizen 45 years ago is Gays would be getting married they'd call you nuts. It's the principle of taking one small baby step at a time instead of draconian changes... eventually it will happen. The only way to stop this type of thing is to draw the line right away, and never ever give an inch.

We have told them how to improve safety. Stop the pilot pushing, stop scheduling reduced rest, have a sufficiant enough number of reserves, stop punishing pilots with loss of pay for removing themselves when fatigued....

instead, we're going to increase police style actions and basically say the beatings will continue until moral improves.

 

This bill specifically allows companies to punish pilots over what is heard over the CVR. I would put money on my company instantly using the CVR to get rid of a few guys that they see as "troublemakers". This will set the cockpit back decades. This will cause crashes. There seems to be no merit on what the company can get you for. Breaking sterile is the least of my concerns. Its super easy to not break sterile. What I'm worried about is getting monday monring quarterbacked over all of my decisions. Why did I go right around that cell when they think I should of gone left. Opps I missed a 1000 ft call now I'm non SOP... Think this is crazy talk?? Companies will take it this far to get rid of guys.