Not looking Good..oppose S. 3048
03-11-2010 | 03:13 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 13,843
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From: FAA 'Flight Check'
You are missing the point. The CVR was sold to the airlines, the pilots and the public as a way to assist in accident investigations. The holdup to it in the first place was the arguement that at some point somebody woudl want to listen to them at times other than accidents under the guise of improving safety. These things were all discussed at the original implemntation, and everybody who wanted them firmly stated they would never be used in any capacity other than post accident investigations. Otherwise these things would never have made it into the cockpit.
Now, zip forward a few decades and now they want to use them to anonymously check for compliance and safety issues...
zip forward a few decades and they will want to listen to them to determine which pilots have poor attitudes which could pose a threat to safety.
Think that's an exageration? I'm sure if you asked the average citizen 45 years ago is Gays would be getting married they'd call you nuts. It's the principle of taking one small baby step at a time instead of draconian changes... eventually it will happen. The only way to stop this type of thing is to draw the line right away, and never ever give an inch.
We have told them how to improve safety. Stop the pilot pushing, stop scheduling reduced rest, have a sufficiant enough number of reserves, stop punishing pilots with loss of pay for removing themselves when fatigued....
instead, we're going to increase police style actions and basically say the beatings will continue until moral improves.
Now, zip forward a few decades and now they want to use them to anonymously check for compliance and safety issues...
zip forward a few decades and they will want to listen to them to determine which pilots have poor attitudes which could pose a threat to safety.
Think that's an exageration? I'm sure if you asked the average citizen 45 years ago is Gays would be getting married they'd call you nuts. It's the principle of taking one small baby step at a time instead of draconian changes... eventually it will happen. The only way to stop this type of thing is to draw the line right away, and never ever give an inch.
We have told them how to improve safety. Stop the pilot pushing, stop scheduling reduced rest, have a sufficiant enough number of reserves, stop punishing pilots with loss of pay for removing themselves when fatigued....
instead, we're going to increase police style actions and basically say the beatings will continue until moral improves.
Since I am agreeing with you - exactly HOW am I missing the point?
CVRs and FDRs and ASAP programs DO increase safety, mishap investigation, and training. They SHOULD NOT be used as a tool for management to abuse pilots and threaten jobs over. I think you just like to disagree with people, but this time you words are falling short BECAUSE I AM AGREEING WITH YOU! I don't know - maybe you hit the wrong button and meant to quote someone else. If these devices and this information was ONLY to be used in a safety enhancement related manner with no course for retribution I seriously doubt anybody would have a problem with it - or at least they shouldn't. I also come from a flying community where every little communication is poured over and the tapes are watched ad-naseum - and yes I can (could have) gotten in trouble by someone for breaking SOPs or 3710.
Maybe that is your beef with my statement now that I read your again. Do you NOT think that a review of CVR tapes or FDR data can be useful in safety? They should be used for those things I mention and not as some type of leverage in the workplace.
USMCFLYR
Last edited by USMCFLYR; 03-12-2010 at 08:33 AM.
03-12-2010 | 08:16 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
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From: CRJ
03-12-2010 | 02:56 PM
#63
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 440
Likes: 8
This is what i got from Senator Kohl (D) of Wisconsin.
Dear Mr. xxxxxxxxx:
Thank you for writing me with your concerns about the use of black boxes for pilot monitoring. I appreciate hearing from you.
As you know, Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC) introduced the Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act, S. 3048. This bill would allow air carriers to use information from a cockpit voice recorder (CVR) or flight data recorder for any purpose relating to improving the safety and well being of passengers, including the evaluation or discipline of pilots or flight engineers. S. 3048 requires air carriers to keep information from a CVR confidential and only allows disclosure of the information as required for an administrative or judicial proceeding. Additionally, the Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act would prohibit the tampering or disabling of any CVR. S. 3048 has been referred to the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, of which I am not a member.
I believe it is of the utmost importance that we protect the traveling public. I know the vast majority of pilots are dedicated to that goal and work hard to abide by existing regulations and to meet the needs of the people they fly. I understand your concerns with the potential harm that company use of CVRs and will keep this in mind during consideration of the FAA reauthorization bill or S. 3048.
Again, thank you for your letter.
Thank you for writing me with your concerns about the use of black boxes for pilot monitoring. I appreciate hearing from you.
As you know, Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC) introduced the Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act, S. 3048. This bill would allow air carriers to use information from a cockpit voice recorder (CVR) or flight data recorder for any purpose relating to improving the safety and well being of passengers, including the evaluation or discipline of pilots or flight engineers. S. 3048 requires air carriers to keep information from a CVR confidential and only allows disclosure of the information as required for an administrative or judicial proceeding. Additionally, the Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act would prohibit the tampering or disabling of any CVR. S. 3048 has been referred to the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, of which I am not a member.
I believe it is of the utmost importance that we protect the traveling public. I know the vast majority of pilots are dedicated to that goal and work hard to abide by existing regulations and to meet the needs of the people they fly. I understand your concerns with the potential harm that company use of CVRs and will keep this in mind during consideration of the FAA reauthorization bill or S. 3048.
Again, thank you for your letter.
03-12-2010 | 08:06 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 127
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From: A320 gear monkey
Dear Mr. xxxxxxxxx:
Thank you for writing me with your concerns about the use of black boxes for pilot monitoring. I appreciate hearing from you.
As you know, Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC) introduced the Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act, S. 3048. This bill would allow air carriers to use information from a cockpit voice recorder (CVR) or flight data recorder for any purpose relating to improving the safety and well being of passengers, including the evaluation or discipline of pilots or flight engineers. S. 3048 requires air carriers to keep information from a CVR confidential and only allows disclosure of the information as required for an administrative or judicial proceeding. Additionally, the Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act would prohibit the tampering or disabling of any CVR. S. 3048 has been referred to the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, of which I am not a member.
I believe it is of the utmost importance that we protect the traveling public. I know the vast majority of pilots are dedicated to that goal and work hard to abide by existing regulations and to meet the needs of the people they fly. I understand your concerns with the potential harm that company use of CVRs and will keep this in mind during consideration of the FAA reauthorization bill or S. 3048.
Again, thank you for your letter.
But wait, if the other bill gets passed with pria on steroids, then your company file is made public to future employers. Hence, what you said is not confidential. How again does this help safety?
Thank you for writing me with your concerns about the use of black boxes for pilot monitoring. I appreciate hearing from you.
As you know, Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC) introduced the Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act, S. 3048. This bill would allow air carriers to use information from a cockpit voice recorder (CVR) or flight data recorder for any purpose relating to improving the safety and well being of passengers, including the evaluation or discipline of pilots or flight engineers. S. 3048 requires air carriers to keep information from a CVR confidential and only allows disclosure of the information as required for an administrative or judicial proceeding. Additionally, the Pilot Professionalism Assurance Act would prohibit the tampering or disabling of any CVR. S. 3048 has been referred to the Senate Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee, of which I am not a member.
I believe it is of the utmost importance that we protect the traveling public. I know the vast majority of pilots are dedicated to that goal and work hard to abide by existing regulations and to meet the needs of the people they fly. I understand your concerns with the potential harm that company use of CVRs and will keep this in mind during consideration of the FAA reauthorization bill or S. 3048.
Again, thank you for your letter.
But wait, if the other bill gets passed with pria on steroids, then your company file is made public to future employers. Hence, what you said is not confidential. How again does this help safety?
03-15-2010 | 12:24 PM
#65
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Joined: Apr 2009
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I received an email today from one of my senators. Apparently they didn't really read it since it was on the CVRs and NOT health care reform.
__________________________________________________ _________
Thank you for contacting my office regarding health care reform.
I appreciate your taking the time to share your views with me, and I understand the deep concerns that Virginians have on both sides of this important debate. In the event that further health care reform legislation comes before the full Senate, I will continue to be guided by the principles I set forth at the beginning of this debate. I support meaningful, fiscally-responsible, and effective health care reform that contains costs, expands access to health care, protects Medicare, and reforms the market for health insurance. I am particularly concerned that we protect Americans with pre-existing medical conditions and foster increased competition among carriers. Significant deviations from these core principles would lead me to withhold my support.
As the health care reform debate continues, please be assured that your views will be very helpful to me and my staff. I hope that you will continue to share your thoughts with us in the years ahead.
Thank you again for your interest in this important matter.
Sincerely,
Jim Webb
United States Senator
__________________________________________________ _________
Thank you for contacting my office regarding health care reform.
I appreciate your taking the time to share your views with me, and I understand the deep concerns that Virginians have on both sides of this important debate. In the event that further health care reform legislation comes before the full Senate, I will continue to be guided by the principles I set forth at the beginning of this debate. I support meaningful, fiscally-responsible, and effective health care reform that contains costs, expands access to health care, protects Medicare, and reforms the market for health insurance. I am particularly concerned that we protect Americans with pre-existing medical conditions and foster increased competition among carriers. Significant deviations from these core principles would lead me to withhold my support.
As the health care reform debate continues, please be assured that your views will be very helpful to me and my staff. I hope that you will continue to share your thoughts with us in the years ahead.
Thank you again for your interest in this important matter.
Sincerely,
Jim Webb
United States Senator
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