I am sensing some sarcasm. I think the point was if you are hired as a part 121 two pilot operation with 250 hours you have actually not developed any piloting skills. How many hours do you think this guy had in an airplane by himself actually making decisions by himself? Very few. I am going out on a limb here, if this guy had instructed until he had 1000 hours this accident would have never happened. As an instructor he would have developed the skills required to pilot an aircraft properly and he would have not driven that plane into the ground. Lets be honest with ourselves, as part 121 pilots our actual piloting skills are probably not of the quality that they were when we were instructing/hauling cargo in planes without autopilots practicing real piloting, 121 flying is easy. My true piloting skills that form my base as a pilot were developed well before flying in the 121 world. Without that base, well you see what can happen. Just my opinion, right or wrong.

 

You're mixing politics and flying and have both of your fact sets wrong. Germany has some of the highest wages out there, is heavy on unions and is one of the worlds largest export economies. The BA strike is by the cabin crews, not pilots. It's over reductions in staffing and service levels that could be achieved dollar for dollar by a labor union offered concessionary package that BA management refused to consider. The issue at BA is a CEO that is beholden to the Conservative Party and is hoping to break the union and use cheaper, less qualified employees.

When I was working my way up, I made a concious decision to walk away from a flight instructing job that put 100 hours a month in my logbook at a well respected 141 school. I chucked the hours and pay for a 60% pay cut to go fly a Navajo hauling passengers, because I knew CFI time was not going to cut it if I wanted to get anywhere. Six months later, it led to a job with a large regional as an F/O in turboprops in the Northeast. One year as an F/O and one year as a Captain with no autopilot or flight director in snow, ice, boomers and ATC put the time in my logbook to get to a major. It was the EXPERIENCE...not hours...that mattered.

It should be ATP minimums to get to the right seat. Sorry, but when the crap hits the fan, the Captain keels over, or the magic goes "poof," I don't need a 250 or 500 hour button pushing wonder in the right seat. I need someone who can think, act and has some experience.

The people in back and the people on the ground under us deserve no less.

 

Just so you know, I wasn't blaming things on pilots. I was just making the argument that high wages for unions doesn't automatically bring prosperity.

 

Hi!

The correct question to ask, as far as the hourly/experience/safety factor is this:
Were you (or Capt X), better at 1500 hours, or better at 250 (or 190, with a Commercial License) hours???

Obviously, you were (or will be) better at 1500 hours and your ATP.

cliff
NBO

 

I think experience is the determining factor.

I had over 1000hrs but that was mainly VFR flying. It was PIC but i'm a heck of a better pilot after flying 135 freight than i was before. It won't necessarily get me anywhere (should have gone to a regional) but its good at building an experience base.

 

Someone brought up.. where are we going to get pilots when a shortage occurs if they can't find pilots... there is no shortage.. there never has been... There has only been a shortage of pilots willing to work for the poor wages being offered.. Only thee 400 hour wonders out there are th only ones willing to fly jet aircraft of that size for $24 an hour...

This hour min will hopefully bring up the wages...

 

Hi!

The airline biz is pretty cyclical in hiring, and it continuously changes, also.

Was UAL in 196x a crap job with ****ty wages? If not, then there definitely WAS a hiring shortage. UAL, and other carriers, were recruiting in High Schools and HIRING guys who had a PPL!!!

cliff
LFW

 

The minimum hours should definitely help the situation out, but you also will need some kind of movement in the ranks at the Majors. I've been hearing about a shortage since 1998 and its already 2010 and we have thousands of pilots on furlough.

Unfortunately, like a lot of things in life, you have to hit ROCK BOTTOM to see some change, I think we are hitting an all time low with companies such as Colgan and these crap feeder companies who pay their pilots less than a manager at Wendys.

The job needs to become so unattractive for pay to rise ... it's quiet sad. I found my peace by moving to Europe .. sad but true.

 

If it is easy or not depends on what you are flying and how you are flying.

If you are hand flying a CRJ (has no auto throttle) every approach from way before intercepting final approach course and hand flying every climbout up to 18000 you will develop good skills or bether skills (just to clarify. You should already have good skills before even flying a CRJ) and much better than sitting as a CFI watching a student hour after hour. Handflying a CRJ or any other jet below FL200 in bad weather all the time can be a handful and developes for sure good skills.

121 is easy (after a while) if you put the autopilot at 600ft after t/o and let also the autopilot shoot the entire approach. Then you are just pushing buttons and not actually flying, you are managing. It is all up to you and what you make of it. The hard part of 121 can be the airports ground and ramp operations like LAX, ORD, ATL. You will never get training in that being a CFI.

just my 2 cents

 

Not directed at you, HermannGraf, but I'm going to get on a soap box here because I see this statement (or those similiar) very often....

... and its dead wrong.

It seems to me that the only people that say building time as a CFI is worthless are those who have never been CFIs or have never been 121 Captains.

The biggest thing about being a CFI is that it forces you to be ahead of the airplane. Every minute of every flight. You're in a situation where someone is sitting next to you trying to invent new creative ways to kill you with little notice. Secondary to that, the experience you gain as a CFI is invaluable as a 121 captain. Simply being used to having someone less experienced than you in the cockpit flying the aircraft. Knowing how far to let it go before its "too far."

CFI time is not wasted time. Even if you do 1000 hours of nothing but pattern work. Yes, you going beyond CFI work (ie: 135 freight) will even moreso develop and round out your skills, but the CFI step is not a step that is worthless by far.