Deal made on hours of training for co-pilots
03-18-2010 | 09:24 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 13,843
Likes: 1
From: FAA 'Flight Check'
Rick, Again you miss the mark! it isn't about the hours. Is 800 going to make a pilot safe? How about 5000 hours? It isn't the hours, if that were the case explain Cali Colombia? so many case studies that show hours aren't the key factor. Sleep, better rest cycles, and giving the PIC actual athority to tell a dispatcher no way jose! The union didn't win and when this goes in to full bloom it will cripple an already crippled industry.
It is an ugly approach and you should have gone missed!
It is an ugly approach and you should have gone missed!
Case studies are just that..........studies of mishaps. You learn that mishaps can creep up and bite anyone in the butt; but they show nothing about whether hours are good or otherwise. IT IS THE UNKNOWN.
Maybe a better gauge would be a study of the ALMOST mishaps
USMCFLYR
03-18-2010 | 09:29 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 13,843
Likes: 1
From: FAA 'Flight Check'
How about making the sim portion of the interview not so freakin easy!! I interviewed at 2 airlines (got an offer at both) and both had the easiest sim evals ever. I mean what does having a instrument rated commercial pilot fly an ILS to minimums then describe what type of hold entry should be done during the missed tell you about that pilot? Absolutely nothing other than they can read a gouge and practice the standard sequence a few times before the interview. Switch it up so you can't just read the gouge and know exactly what you are going to do for the interview. You should have to do a few approaches, maybe via procedure turn on one, throw some single engine and partial panel in there as well. I know that's not what you will be doing 99.99% of the time at the airlines but at least you know for that .01% you'll have the right pilot for the job, and that's when it really counts. And if you think that is unfair or too hard for an interview then I certainly don't want to ride in the back of any plane your flying.
"Excellence is not a skill. It is an attitude."
"Excellence is not a skill. It is an attitude."
How about a sim or a flight in an airplane that I've never been in before?
Will that be a fair assesment of my piloting skills?
How about if I told you that I would give you your DREAM job if you could pass a basic instrument qualification in MY simulator? I'm sure that I could make it more than you can handle 99% of the time.
No....training is actually a much better gauge of a pilot's skill than a one shot simulator session.
USMCFLYR
03-18-2010 | 11:10 PM
#93
A Second Past V1
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 743
Likes: 0
From: Assumed
The grounds on which this bill is made are asinine, its was fatigue issue.
But in the end I hope by taking out 250 hour wonder pilots from right seat jobs we will see some pay changes and a little more respect. A strike or two here or there after pilots take any more concessions would be nice too, cause now theres not someone chomping at the bit with a wet CMEL for this job.
Last year, this time, I was at 275 hours. Since then, Ive run around the country, live in four states, had a company fold up on me, and now make just enough to pay rent and bills. Just passed 900 last month. Not at a 121 or 135 operation yet, but still working at it.
Ladies and gentlemen, you either want it or you dont. So suck it up and GSD
But in the end I hope by taking out 250 hour wonder pilots from right seat jobs we will see some pay changes and a little more respect. A strike or two here or there after pilots take any more concessions would be nice too, cause now theres not someone chomping at the bit with a wet CMEL for this job.
Last year, this time, I was at 275 hours. Since then, Ive run around the country, live in four states, had a company fold up on me, and now make just enough to pay rent and bills. Just passed 900 last month. Not at a 121 or 135 operation yet, but still working at it.
Ladies and gentlemen, you either want it or you dont. So suck it up and GSD
03-19-2010 | 06:13 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,206
Likes: 0
From: G550 Captain
The grounds on which this bill is made are asinine, its was fatigue issue.
But in the end I hope by taking out 250 hour wonder pilots from right seat jobs we will see some pay changes and a little more respect. A strike or two here or there after pilots take any more concessions would be nice too, cause now theres not someone chomping at the bit with a wet CMEL for this job.
Last year, this time, I was at 275 hours. Since then, Ive run around the country, live in four states, had a company fold up on me, and now make just enough to pay rent and bills. Just passed 900 last month. Not at a 121 or 135 operation yet, but still working at it.
Ladies and gentlemen, you either want it or you dont. So suck it up and GSD
But in the end I hope by taking out 250 hour wonder pilots from right seat jobs we will see some pay changes and a little more respect. A strike or two here or there after pilots take any more concessions would be nice too, cause now theres not someone chomping at the bit with a wet CMEL for this job.
Last year, this time, I was at 275 hours. Since then, Ive run around the country, live in four states, had a company fold up on me, and now make just enough to pay rent and bills. Just passed 900 last month. Not at a 121 or 135 operation yet, but still working at it.
Ladies and gentlemen, you either want it or you dont. So suck it up and GSD
03-19-2010 | 06:40 AM
#95
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: CRJ-200 FO
Agreed, some of these proposals are some of the dumbest ideas and concepts I have ever heard, but then again I wouldn't expect anything else from Washington these days. The rationale for these rules, with regard to icing, is ridiculous.
Basically, this rule will entice newly-minted, freshly-certified commercial pilots to fly into icing conditions prior to applying at a regional airline. I'm not sure what metric the FAA will use to determine an individual's particular background and experience level with icing conditions, but it'll be interesting to see what they come out with. I guess we need to start adding an column for icing in our logbooks as well now.
End of the day, icing had very little/nothing to do with this crash, so it seems amiss to try and tap in new regulation for a "unrelated factor" contributing to the crash.
It comes down to substandard treatment, compensation, and work rules which need to be addressed at the federal level. The fact that pilots, regional ones especially, operate hundreds of thousands of flights every year safely while giving and committing so much only to get back so little in return.
Washington expects and regulates towards nothing less than perfection from the pilots in this country, yet the politicians will not even attempt to understand or commiserate with the hardships many pilots are dealt with.
If only, we as American Citizens, held our Elected Public Servants to the same Professional Standards that we act upon day in and day out, if only.
Basically, this rule will entice newly-minted, freshly-certified commercial pilots to fly into icing conditions prior to applying at a regional airline. I'm not sure what metric the FAA will use to determine an individual's particular background and experience level with icing conditions, but it'll be interesting to see what they come out with. I guess we need to start adding an column for icing in our logbooks as well now.
End of the day, icing had very little/nothing to do with this crash, so it seems amiss to try and tap in new regulation for a "unrelated factor" contributing to the crash.
It comes down to substandard treatment, compensation, and work rules which need to be addressed at the federal level. The fact that pilots, regional ones especially, operate hundreds of thousands of flights every year safely while giving and committing so much only to get back so little in return.
Washington expects and regulates towards nothing less than perfection from the pilots in this country, yet the politicians will not even attempt to understand or commiserate with the hardships many pilots are dealt with.
If only, we as American Citizens, held our Elected Public Servants to the same Professional Standards that we act upon day in and day out, if only.
A huge problem with this country is the unnecessary need for short term gain.
03-19-2010 | 08:31 AM
#96
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,262
Likes: 0
From: Trying not to crash
It's true that 135 offers aircraft capable of flying in icing, but how realistic is it that these jobs will be available? There aren't that many right now and I doubt many will spring up because of this. When you consider the shadiness of some 135 operators and the requirements insurance providers place on some, I just don't see how it will work effectively and not cause a major pilot shortage.
That's just my view and I know other will disagree with me.
That's like me selling a car, and saying "But oh no! There's a shortage of cars, which means I'll get more money for mine!"
03-19-2010 | 08:38 AM
#97
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Why are they not focusing on the most important stuff? I mean yes it is great to see the hours increased. IMO they have always been too low, but what about better fatigue, work rest, and pay rules? This seems to be a larger contributor to crashes like 3407 than that. Why focus on checkride busts so much, especially primary busts, when there does not seem to be as much forward movement on the more important things?
03-19-2010 | 03:00 PM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
From: Left seat of a Jet
Hi!
They'll get the foreign pilots from Africa...oh wait, there is a shortage, so no.
They'll get the foreign pilots from the Middle East...oh wait, there is a shortage, so no.
They'll get the foreign pilots from Asia...oh wait, there is a shortage, so no.
They'll get the foreign pilots from S./Central America...oh wait, there is shortage, so no.
They'll get the foreign pilots from Antarctica???
Europe is even importing experienced pilots, and the T&Cs there are way better than the US, so I don't see that happening.
Alien pilot training on Mars will provide the pilots???
cliff
NBO
They'll get the foreign pilots from Africa...oh wait, there is a shortage, so no.
They'll get the foreign pilots from the Middle East...oh wait, there is a shortage, so no.
They'll get the foreign pilots from Asia...oh wait, there is a shortage, so no.
They'll get the foreign pilots from S./Central America...oh wait, there is shortage, so no.
They'll get the foreign pilots from Antarctica???
Europe is even importing experienced pilots, and the T&Cs there are way better than the US, so I don't see that happening.
Alien pilot training on Mars will provide the pilots???
cliff
NBO
Some of those airlines in the countries you listed pay better than many US airlines!
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