If you got a job with a major after 1 year F/O on a prop and a year as a captain on a prop after not instructing or doing time building, I am assuming you got hired at your major with, say 2500 hours. Tops.

Nothing wrong with that, but consider yourself incredibly, unbelievably fortunate. There are thousands of pilots with vastly more experience who are still waiting for that call.

I have over 6000 hours, most of it in jets and several thousand PIC on jets now and the vast majority of it in the NE. Snow, ice, boomers and ATC here too. Still waiting on that call.

Nothing wrong with your experience, but if you are at a major it is not because of your vast experience when you got hired if indeed you were hired with a couple seasons in the NE.

 

I could not agree more. Dont forget:

Being a CFI is super important because it gives you the confidence to train students. I have flown with two captains who were not CFIs. They were always uncomfortable with letting me hand fly the aircraft. They usually flew all of the legs and they usually made me clean the aircraft. Needless to say if I ever run a flight department I would never hire someone who did not have a CFI and at least 100 hours of dual given.

Yes hand flying a CRJ (not that I would know) is more relevant to being an airline pilot than being a CFI. And I've got to ask how often are your captains letting you hand fly approaches? How do you think you will get all that time as an SIC hand flying a CRJ? You need to have a training captain who has the other 98% of flying dialed: Weather, Fuel, Rules W&B etc. Now your training captain also has to be cool with SIC hand flying the aircraft and you bet he needs to be able to recover from whatever the SIC can throw at him. This confidence comes from being a CFI! How short sighted can you be?

The very people you are counting on for you to get your precious hand flying time are former CFIs. If everyone skipped being a CFI then we would have a bunch of namby pamby pilots who flew the autopilot to minimums on every landing. Even if the SIC could be a good pilot they would never get the chance because the captain would not be confident enough to train an SIC.

I let ZERO time King Air pilots fly from the left seat of my King Air on part 91 legs. My copilots are getting valuable experience that they would never get with the former non CFI captains that I used to fly with as an SIC. I promised myself that as a captain I would never make someone capable just sit there while I espoused on my own delusions of grandeur. That promise comes from my confidence that I developed as a CFI in a 152. Yes a lowly 152 still the most important part of my aviation career. And if you think you can keep a King Air on the center line your first takeoff I'd like to see you try!

 

Sounds like you have a grudge with non CFIs because they didn't let you fly a couple of times vs actual merit for your argument. I've flown with both types, there's no difference especially after thousands of hours.

 

I understand what you are trying to say but let's not go overboard with this not hiring unless you have CFI experience. You can get excellent experience flying freight, charter or military flying without CFI experience. No doubt CFI is an excellent way to gain experience. I give you that. I think we can all agree that ATP and 1500 should be the minimum for part 121 flying.

 

dubbel post, sorry

 

That's not how it is in the 121 world. I think we are talking about two worlds with totally different levels of experience.

It is not right to compare a part 91 FBO SIC with a 121 First Officer.

Timebuilding is done outside of 121 operations before you join.
I was answering to someone saying 121 flying is easy and I ment that it depends on how you fly 121.

In my airline the Captains "let" (we dont see it that way) the First Officer handfly as much as he likes. In our airline CA and FOs are trained to the same level and many FOs perform much better or are more skilled than the Captains.

We handfly most climbouts to 18000 and most vissual approaches and even instrument approaches sometimes.

My airline never hired people with less than 1000 hours and 100 multi if no CRJ time. Exception down to 800 hours was made for very very few that had flown CRJ for other airlines.

Most of the FOs at my airline have several thousend hours.

Weather, Fuel, rules and all the setup for the flight can easely be done by any First Officer at our company.

121 is 2 crew enviroment. Both pilots are there to back each other and to be the watching and safety net for the other pilot.

Many of our FOs are former Captains in 135 or 121.

Personally I joined as an FO with over 1000 hours just in turbine time and much more TT.

First Officers are highly trained and respected in our airline and not looked upon like a novice or a pilot with limmited skills like in the PART 91 FBO world.
Our First officers are Captain in training and have to pass the same training than the Captain.

PCs are most of the time performed at the same time for a Captain and a First officer and during such both have to perform the same tasks and manuvers just from different seats.

I prefer to fly any day with a former 135 cargo IFR night guy with no CFI time than a 2000 hour CFI that have no icing or weather experience and very limmited hands on flying within those 2000 hours. CFI is great for AIM/FARs knowledge but not so great for getting flying experience..............

 

amen! !!!!!

 

You are right that it is not worthless and I can agree that you learn a lot from it but only to a certain point and not in flying skills and as you mention part 135 or military experience gives much more than work as CFI for 2-3 thousend hours.

I have met many former CFI pilots that done up to 1500 hours being instructors that said themselves that they had not touch the controls at all for hundreds and hundreds of hours and that they lacked the flying skills that the amount of hours should represent and that they lacked the confidence that the hands on experience gives you......

 

Depends how you use your CFI.... I have taken IFR pilots on long x/c's down to mins, I have seen both coast of the USA, all as a CFI.... its all about how you spend your time.

 

you got a point there.............