You know there are alot of us that did just that now. Teaching in little planes, working your butt off.....all called paying dues and learning.

I see this is a huge blow the the 250 hour wonder at Riddle Diddle. That is no more, and for good reason. I predict good companies will have no problems with staffing, but companies like TSA will be unable to attract anybody to work there, they couldn't even keep up with people quitting when their mins were 250tt.

Flame away.

 

i have already said it would discourage the lesser serious pilots and that that was a good thing. The post you just quoted was to explain that if most people are going to put 5 years into preparing for a career it would be a career that gave them more than 20k a year for the first few years.

 

NO, what CANAM sad is COMPLETELY true. Sorry, after experiencing it firsthand multiple times since 9/11, that's the way it is.

And NO, the company is going to pay what gets negotiated. Whether that's in a "good" economic time and things are on the way up, or during a bad time and things are on the way down. Has NOTHING to do with paying "whatever they have to pay to keep their airline running".

Sadly, O.J. said it best, and it's a paraphrase. "as long as you have pilots showing up for ground school, you're paying too much".

 

What I am trying to say in " pay whatever to keep their airline running" is that we determine pay, not the company, not JO. Again, if the industry standard for regionals was 40 bucks an hour first year pay, then that's what airlines will pay in a heart beat. The question is how do we get to that point, since there is always someone willing to do it cheaper? Limiting pilot supply, adding barriers and restoring the true worth in being a pilot. This bill they're working on is a small but significant step in that direction. Sounds like your time at Mesa has completely distorted your expectations of this job and maybe your self worth.

 

No, pay is what your NC can negotiate, NOT what your MEC/NC determines. During ANY negotiation, whether the leapfrogging type, or the concessionary type the company goes low, the NC goes high, and they meet somewhere in the middle.

Why limit an "industry standard" to just the regionals.? Take a look at what CAL, UAL, and NW (pre merger) were paying new hires.

And with that asinine statement, as well as your complete and utter ignorance of the topic as well as where I've worked, I'll have to bow out of the debate with you. Sorry.

 

Maybe they should include a clause in this bill that will require airlines to pay so much for pilots. Kind-of...minimum wage for pilots...

Thoughts?

 

Wasn't there a regional wanting to raise new hire pay back around 2007, but the union said no because they wanted pay raises across the board instead of just year one? ASA or Pinnacle?

 

You're correct.

It's also funny that when it took 2500 hours to get an interview for a regional turboprop job nobody had any problems with that... it was the natural career progression.

Then the bubble burst and we did actually come up against a lack of qualified pilots, so the airlines had to actually dip to the point of hiring people who were just barely "legal" to hire...

that went on for a few years, and lots of college programs and ab initio programs expanded rapidly... so rapidly that nobody noticed the consequences of being able to go from ink wet to shiny jet.... the old way of earning your way up the ladder provided CFI's to teach for a year or two before getting their 135 gig to start them off... those days were now gone, and many flight programs had a hard time keeping instructors around.... just look at Daniel Webster... out of the flight training business.

These schools want to be able to send people right into the right seat of transport category aircraft. The problem is that the regional airline then becomes the training ground for the rest of the aviation industry, when previously you learned your way flying boxes at night.

forcing the license rule change will allow university and ab initio programs to resume the normal path of training, and then employing the best of their students. During the past 6 years the most common complaint I heard from flight students was they had to change instructors like 6 times before they finished their private because the airlines kept hiring them up.
That's a problem. Of course, recently that hasn't been a problem, and most CFIs are just happy to be getting paid to fly since so many folks are out of work altogether.

 

Yup and thats the problem with the senority system the guys up top dont
give a crap about the guys at the bottom. Look at what happened to scope
with all the majors. Those senior guys gave it all up. Why should they care if it hurts people 10 years down the road, only 3 years till they retire then who gives a crap what happens at the company. Flame away

 

Here's a plan for you - after 5 years of negotiations all the pilots go on strike. Cripple one of the largest major airlines by shutting down their second busiest hub. Vote down the first two TAs. Stay on strike for 89 days. Work at Home Depot when you aren't on the picket line. Watch your major partner bleed through $600 million to avoid paying an extra $23 million in annual pilot wages. Then sign an industry-leading contract for pay and work rules.

Then watch as your major partner shrinks, dismantles, and gives away your organization to the lowest bidders. Watch 6 other regionals come in to work your hub while you furlough hundreds and park half your fleet.

In the future? That depends on who wants to be the next Comair.