The flow was created specifically for places to fill in case NWA/DAL pilots were furloughed, it just so happens that both parties benefited...your beef shouldn't be with Mesaba it should be with Delta...we still have to meet all the same requirements as anyone else who is applying for the job...i.e. 4 year degree, so on and so forth, we've had 13 guys go...THATS IT

 

What? Where did you get that idea? There might be few trolls who say negative things about Pinnacle but most of us get along great with Pinnacle folks. Don't let the few bad apples skew your view of Mesaba pilot group. And thanks for your encouragement. Even though XJ keeps getting bad news lately, it's nothing surprising really. We all knew Saab days were coming to an end.

 

i know it happens at every airline, i shouldnt have generalized it like that i guess but if you read the message, i said that i do have a good view of your pilot group. I just feel that some of your guys (the ones who have been at mesaba long term) don't have a great view of ours becuase of what they have seen in that time (3701, milwaukee, traverse city) combined with explosive growth at our airline from 2000 to 2007 while Mesaba went through some tough times and continues too. I don't really blame them for how they feel. Now that the saabs are leaving the next plane really on the radar is the crj 200, we just happen to have 126 of those so we are def. not out of the woods especially with our "increased presence in LGA and JFK" especially this fall.

 

Not really. What is included in your list of "more qualified" airline furloughees? i.e.Those pilots hired at legacies via the affirmative action, nepotism and/or squadron buddy system? I'm not entirely dismissing your point. However, there is logic that the vacancies left by flow through agreements can be the furloughees' shot at a job.

 

There are pilots out there who are furloughed or out of work from a multitude of various airlines, from the little guys (ASA, Comair, Mesa, etc) all the way up to the big players (TWA, United, UPS, etc).

Some of these pilots have more years of airline experience than the age of future potential Mesaba flow-throughs. They have more Heavy Jet PIC time than the Mesaba guys have total time. They've done things like be check airmen, chief pilots, safety reps, sim instructors, etc.

They'll also result in Delta getting a much more consistent known quality as they have to go through the interview process and have the resume to get them there.

No offense to Mesaba pilots but many (I'd assume the majority) of the flowthroughs will have spent their career putting around in a regional aircraft in the upper mid-west without ever passing a major airline interview process or doing anything other than flying a plane around. And the longer the flow through goes on, the less and less experienced of pilots will be going to Delta, taking jobs that could've gone to other pilots.

It doesn't mean they're bad pilots, it simply means that they're jumping ahead of the line and a lot of very high quality pilots are being skipped over, who if Delta were out to get the best pilots they could, would've gotten interviews and hired first.

The flow was negotiated and its there and everyone rationally accepts that, but a lot of people (such as myself) have a vastly different view on how things "should" be. Your opinion may vary.

 

Not so. After Comair was purchased by Delta, Comair pilots "hired" by Delta found they could not roll their 401k's into Delta's plans. Why? HR cited the IRS's "Same Desk Rule" which essentially says there's been no separation of employment within an "affiliated employer network."

The solution was to amend all the plans to permit plan to plan roll-overs within the same "affiliated employer network" which again, can only be done if the affiliated employers were all part of a larger entity. As further evidence of commonality, Delta's 2001 pilot agreement required Delta management to amend Delta, ASA's, and Comair's plans accordingly.

As for the rest of it, the FAA has no say over whether or not the companies are truly "separate", they only oversee operating certificates. Pointing to the separate operating certificates isn't compelling as every alter ego has its own operating certificate or it wouldn't be a potent alter ego in the first place.

Only ALPA, management, and the NMB can make such a determination and we all know where management stands. So the ball is really in ALPA's court to (1) determine for itself a single-carrier exists and (2) to make a compelling case before the NMB, unless of course it wishes to purchase management's voluntary recognition of a single-carrier.

Unfortunately, the giant dead fish on the table is the lack of poltical will-power on ALPA's part to approach Delta management or the NMB on this issue. Worse, in failing to do so, ALPA is simultaneously undermining any argument that CMR, CPZ, or MSA constitute a single-carrier as most of the NMB's single-carrier litmus tests are based principally on management's command and control.

Therefore, since Mesaba's management cannot not issue orders to Compass or Comair management, there's no way to argue Comair and Mesaba are common carriers without arguing in effect that Delta, Compass, Mesaba, and Comair are all a common carrier.

That of course is where it gets political and a big reason why ALPA is loathe to seek single-carrier determinations between "regional" wholly owned subsidiaries.

 

Fair enough. However, remember that there are exceptions that go beyond rare.

No to mention, the Delta (or any airline) interview is not infallible. Often times how one sells oneself at an interview is the deciding factor and does not necessarily filter out the less qualified applicants. Flow-through vs the traditional path is not black and white.

 

I don't know why you are so bent out of shape over Mesaba flowthru that has not even started but all your assumptions are completely wrong. You sound downright bitter.

FYI, the first 45 that will flowthru in 2010 have all been at Mesaba for at least 14 years with close to 10,000 pic turbine time. many with thousands of hours in Avros and CRJ900s. You can't hardly call Avros and CRJ900s small little regional jets. At any case heavy jet time is not a requirement for getting hired at DAL. Never has been. Otherwise DAL would not have hired hundreds of ERJ 145 and CRJ200 pilots from ExpressJet and ASA. I know few who had barely over 3 years total at their respective regionals. As for more qualified furloghed pilots from legacy carriers, if you mean UAL pilots, I know majority of them were hired on at UAL from regionals like SkyWest, etc. So they only had regional flying experience when they were hired. I also know for a fact that UAL hired females and former male interns with less than 700 hours total and the biggest they have flown before getting on with UAL was a Seminole. I have my squadron buddy with tactical fighter time out on the street since 2001 while those same people mentioned above are holding lines at UAL.

If DAL hires in August everyone will have a share shake of the pie because Mesaba is only entitled to 9 per class and Compass only takes up 20 per month. DAL is planning to hire 300 in 2010 so that still leaves 155 open slots for you to compete for. DAL is probably going to hire in 2011 also. I find it ironic people like you don't complain about flowthru when furloughs are imminent but when there is even a whiff of hiring, you immediately start attacking the pilot group who had no say so in the implementation of the flowthru program.

I respectfully recommend that you take a more positive attitude should you get invited to interview with DAL otherwise your negative and bitterness will show thru during your interview. Good luck to your career. I mean it sincerely.

 

[quote=Lighteningspeed;823003 DAL is planning to hire 300 in 2010 so that still leaves 155 open slots for you to compete for. [/quote]

Only after 300 Delta furlough bypassees and 170 poolies.

 

Yes, we know. You have already pointed that out for us.