View Poll Results: What will the regionals be flying in 5 years
Scope will go back to 50 seats or less
38
16.67%
Scope will allow more 76 jets but stay at 76 seats
94
41.23%
Scope will allow 100 Seats or less
60
26.32%
Scope will allow 125 seats or less
36
15.79%
Voters: 228. You may not vote on this poll
Will 100 seat aircraft come to the regionals?
08-18-2010 | 02:06 PM
#51
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I think he's partly right. It all depends upon whether or not the mainline pilots are willing to hold the line on scope or even try to tighten it up in the face of probable gains in other areas in their contracts. The managements badly want relaxation of scope. The pilots want to tighten it. But management will undoubtedly offer some pretty big carrots for further relaxation.
The pilots will, however, have greater leverage in future contract negotiations.
The pilots will, however, have greater leverage in future contract negotiations.
Oh, there will be a limit like 737-800's, but EMB-175/CRJ-900 sized aircraft are already lost. The 190 looks like it will be the domestic codeshare bird flown by cheap labor with managements eventually finding new ways to outsource. It's an ever continuing erosion that flows at different rates, but it's undeniable. Barring a SOS by all mainline pilot groups, the 100 seat or less fight (along with about 65% of the domestic market) is already lost.
Unfortunate it is.
08-18-2010 | 04:36 PM
#52
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From: B757/767
I can't recall too many instances in the last 20 years where mainline pilots have "held the line". They've consistantly allowed it to erode in most every area of their livlelyhoods and now it's too late to stop 100 seat or less scope. ALPA's become a dues collection agency and couldn't defend their own parking spaces in herndon.
Oh, there will be a limit like 737-800's, but EMB-175/CRJ-900 sized aircraft are already lost. The 190 looks like it will be the domestic codeshare bird flown by cheap labor with managements eventually finding new ways to outsource. It's an ever continuing erosion that flows at different rates, but it's undeniable. Barring a SOS by all mainline pilot groups, the 100 seat or less fight (along with about 65% of the domestic market) is already lost.
Unfortunate it is.
Oh, there will be a limit like 737-800's, but EMB-175/CRJ-900 sized aircraft are already lost. The 190 looks like it will be the domestic codeshare bird flown by cheap labor with managements eventually finding new ways to outsource. It's an ever continuing erosion that flows at different rates, but it's undeniable. Barring a SOS by all mainline pilot groups, the 100 seat or less fight (along with about 65% of the domestic market) is already lost.
Unfortunate it is.
eaglefly, You probably know about the AA contract better then I do. I'm not 100% certain of the restrictions but I fairly certain there are some.
08-18-2010 | 05:29 PM
#53
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I keep reading this over and over and over, and I keep saying it IS NOT ALLOWED by almost every mainline contract out there. I don't know why people have a hard time understanding this.
eaglefly, You probably know about the AA contract better then I do. I'm not 100% certain of the restrictions but I fairly certain there are some.
eaglefly, You probably know about the AA contract better then I do. I'm not 100% certain of the restrictions but I fairly certain there are some.
Exactly how long and by what method(s) have yet to be determined, but 2 things are certain. ALPA will fail miserably in any leadership role (just as they have for the last 15 years) and the pilots themselves will fail to unite together (major and regional alike) to define a mutually beneficial and desirable future (just as they have for the past 15 years).
Confidence on these two continuing faliures is extremely high.
08-18-2010 | 06:16 PM
#54
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From: B757/767
What wasn't allowed in 1995 is commonplace today. What isn't allowed today will be commonplace in 5-7 years. History has been and will be our teacher.
Exactly how long and by what method(s) have yet to be determined, but 2 things are certain. ALPA will fail miserably in any leadership role (just as they have for the last 15 years) and the pilots themselves will fail to unite together (major and regional alike) to define a mutually beneficial and desirable future (just as they have for the past 15 years).
Confidence on these two continuing faliures is extremely high.
Exactly how long and by what method(s) have yet to be determined, but 2 things are certain. ALPA will fail miserably in any leadership role (just as they have for the last 15 years) and the pilots themselves will fail to unite together (major and regional alike) to define a mutually beneficial and desirable future (just as they have for the past 15 years).
Confidence on these two continuing faliures is extremely high.
You and I could go back and forth on this for quite a while so I'll just leave it at this.......I respectfully disagree.
08-21-2010 | 08:02 AM
#55
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From: Furlough/Gun Driver
If scope is allowed to get a foot hold in the 100 seat range this career will become pointless for the sacrifices involved. If ALPA does not begin to push back scope it will most likely lose even more major carriers as members. ALPA cannot serve two masters, mainline and regional, they need to choose who they are going to acutually represent.
08-21-2010 | 08:14 AM
#56
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keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
making decisions for the good of the profession allows the splitting of the baby possible. National has to sign every contract regardless of the point of view of each property.
a clear vision of where the profession needs to go is sorely needed but it is not rocket science. unity not division is key. just hold alpa's feet to the fire regarding nonmainline contracts and most of the heavy lifting is done. metaphor mode mode off.
making decisions for the good of the profession allows the splitting of the baby possible. National has to sign every contract regardless of the point of view of each property.
a clear vision of where the profession needs to go is sorely needed but it is not rocket science. unity not division is key. just hold alpa's feet to the fire regarding nonmainline contracts and most of the heavy lifting is done. metaphor mode mode off.
08-21-2010 | 09:53 AM
#57
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From: Self employed
Not sure even what this means. Are you suggesting that ALPA favor "mainline" CBA's over their respective regional CBA's?
Both are in (somewhat) competition for the same flying.
08-21-2010 | 10:24 AM
#58
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From: Furlough/Gun Driver
They are playing both sides ,mainline and regional, and neither side is prospering. When they represent regionals that take flying from mainline carriers flying the same paint, who are they really helping. Mainline loses flying and regional pilots lose opportunity to move onto mainline.
Don't get me wrong. I know ALPA does and has done many things to build the career and improve aviation safety. But I think they have lost focus on where the priority is. In my opinion the priority should be in supporting and developing well paying jobs with good benefits that make this a worthwhile career. Promoting the growth of regionals and allowing the erosion of scope does not do this.
Last edited by dosbo; 08-21-2010 at 06:43 PM. Reason: sp
08-21-2010 | 11:17 AM
#59
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Joined: May 2006
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From: MD80
That is my point. Who does ALPA represent besides ALPA.
They are playing both sides ,mainline and regional, and neither side is prospering. When they represent regionals that take flying from mainline carriers flying the same paint, who are they really helping. Mainline loses flying and regional pilots lose opportunity to move onto mainline.
Don't get me wrong. I know ALPA does and has done many thing to build the career and improve aviation safety. But I think they have lost focus on where the priority is. In my opinion the priority should be in supporting and developing well paying jobs with good benefits that make this a worthwhile career. Promoting the growth of regionals and allowing the erosion of scope does not do this.
They are playing both sides ,mainline and regional, and neither side is prospering. When they represent regionals that take flying from mainline carriers flying the same paint, who are they really helping. Mainline loses flying and regional pilots lose opportunity to move onto mainline.
Don't get me wrong. I know ALPA does and has done many thing to build the career and improve aviation safety. But I think they have lost focus on where the priority is. In my opinion the priority should be in supporting and developing well paying jobs with good benefits that make this a worthwhile career. Promoting the growth of regionals and allowing the erosion of scope does not do this.
08-21-2010 | 06:44 PM
#60
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From: Furlough/Gun Driver
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