Originally Posted by gettinbumped

No, I've been watching the slide for the last 10 years, so I fully have the point. UAL was 10,500 pilots big, and now we are 6,300. We were the highest dues paying pilot group in ALPA, and ALPA national did what to stop the carnage? Nothing, and this is how most of the 7000 guys/gals at Skywest Group got their jobs.

Lawsuits can be filed all day long by the RJ operators, but at the end of the day, they operate within their contract at the whim of their mainline parent's management. When the contract expires, if UAL doesn't renew the deal due to scope issues negotiated with the UAL/CAL pilots, there isn't anything to sue about! It's totally legal.

Look, I know how it feels to have your job threatened. I've lived this way every day for a over a decade since the wheels came off in 2000, watching friends get furloughed (twice), wondering if we are going to cease to exist, all the while watching more and more RJ's in our colors come in and take over flying that we used to do. I'm a former commuter guy, so I know the drill. During this time its been mega expansion, quick upgrades, and bigger and better equipment for regional pilots....good news for the percentage that want to have a career there. Pretending that ALPA is going to somehow step in and make a change one way or another is something I wouldn't hold my breath on. For individual airlines, ALPA is that pilot group, and they will look out for their own self interests. ALPA National won't factor into this decision.

Now, what will happen? Who knows. I've got my own guess, but at our MEC's request, I don't talk about it in public. I do know that the first section that I'll be turning to in the eventual TA is going to be Scope.

Of course I'm not entitled to my job! But for the first time in a VERY long time, I see an opportunity to take back some of the painful, horrific, life-changing losses we've endured. I'm pretty confident the 11000 pilots of CAL/UAL all pretty much feel the same way. Good luck to us all.

Originally Posted by Slaphappy

You're mis-informed, Skywest will not be part of an asa/xjt merger. It has been agreed upon by managment and the xjt mec.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped

No, I've been watching the slide for the last 10 years, so I fully have the point. UAL was 10,500 pilots big, and now we are 6,300. We were the highest dues paying pilot group in ALPA, and ALPA national did what to stop the carnage? Nothing, and this is how most of the 7000 guys/gals at Skywest Group got their jobs.

Lawsuits can be filed all day long by the RJ operators, but at the end of the day, they operate within their contract at the whim of their mainline parent's management. When the contract expires, if UAL doesn't renew the deal due to scope issues negotiated with the UAL/CAL pilots, there isn't anything to sue about! It's totally legal.

Look, I know how it feels to have your job threatened. I've lived this way every day for a over a decade since the wheels came off in 2000, watching friends get furloughed (twice), wondering if we are going to cease to exist, all the while watching more and more RJ's in our colors come in and take over flying that we used to do. I'm a former commuter guy, so I know the drill. During this time its been mega expansion, quick upgrades, and bigger and better equipment for regional pilots....good news for the percentage that want to have a career there. Pretending that ALPA is going to somehow step in and make a change one way or another is something I wouldn't hold my breath on. For individual airlines, ALPA is that pilot group, and they will look out for their own self interests. ALPA National won't factor into this decision.

Now, what will happen? Who knows. I've got my own guess, but at our MEC's request, I don't talk about it in public. I do know that the first section that I'll be turning to in the eventual TA is going to be Scope.

Of course I'm not entitled to my job! But for the first time in a VERY long time, I see an opportunity to take back some of the painful, horrific, life-changing losses we've endured. I'm pretty confident the 11000 pilots of CAL/UAL all pretty much feel the same way. Good luck to us all.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped

jetBlue successfully flies the E190 at $143 an hour (plus overtime) for a 12 year Captain. We can start the discussion there and work backwards to the smaller airframes.

The proposal had the regional flying phased out over time. It wasn't a flip the switch type of deal.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Good post.



FWIW, for better or for worse:

Delta's PWA (starting January 2011), we did negotiate CRJ900 pay:
EMB195 12 YR A = 131.63, EMB190/CRJ900 12 YR A = 111.98
EMB195 12 YR B = 89.90. EMB190/CRJ900 12 YR B = 76.48

SKW CRJ900 12 YR A / B = $86 / $44
OH CRJ700 12 YR A / B = $83 / $43
ASA CRJ700 12 YR A / B = $87 / $45
JB E190 12 YR A / B = $143, $97
RAH E190 12 YR A / B = $96 / $37
Airtran 717/737 12 YR A / B = $153 / $79
AE CRJ700 12 YR A / B = $91 / $41

For comparison, and mind you this is chapter 11 pay rates, for 2011 pay for the MD88/MD90 12 YR A is 161/165, B is 110/112.

My question is, why are regional pilots not worth more pay? I think you are.

But it probably isn't happening until the planes are at mainline and money isn't being spent to finance an entire seperate company and its guaranteed profit.

It is better for everyone that UCAL wins this section 1 battle.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Good post.



FWIW, for better or for worse:

Delta's PWA (starting January 2011), we did negotiate CRJ900 pay:
EMB195 12 YR A = 131.63, EMB190/CRJ900 12 YR A = 111.98
EMB195 12 YR B = 89.90. EMB190/CRJ900 12 YR B = 76.48

SKW CRJ900 12 YR A / B = $86 / $44
OH CRJ700 12 YR A / B = $83 / $43
ASA CRJ700 12 YR A / B = $87 / $45
JB E190 12 YR A / B = $143, $97
RAH E190 12 YR A / B = $96 / $37
Airtran 717/737 12 YR A / B = $153 / $79
AE CRJ700 12 YR A / B = $91 / $41

For comparison, and mind you this is chapter 11 pay rates, for 2011 pay for the MD88/MD90 12 YR A is 161/165, B is 110/112.

My question is, why are regional pilots not worth more pay? I think you are.

But it probably isn't happening until the planes are at mainline and money isn't being spent to finance an entire seperate company and its guaranteed profit.

It is better for everyone that UCAL wins this section 1 battle.

Originally Posted by cubbies4life

as someone with only 1000 hours flying 100 hours a month with a horrible QOL and even worse pay with nothing but more of the same in my future, this was a very interesting thread to read. It looks like you mainline guys are trying to make great steps towards the future of this industry and deserve a sincere thank you from me.

Also, a pretty funny story. I was jumpseating on a regional carrier in an E175 and the captain got all bent out of shape that I called it an RJ. I was under the impressional that it was, especially when its being operated by a regional carrier. He even had the nerve to threaten to deny me boarding but since I was going to work let me board with just a stern talking to. Its people like that captain that will delay the industry from being back where it should be.

Originally Posted by gettinbumped

Thanks for the info! Good to know. jetBlue definitely raised the bar on this one, and it looks to me like it IS doable. Where the hell is that popcorn icon?