In theory this is a great step in the direction I truly believe we want to see the industry move. Very few of us starting commercial flying with the idea that our careers would begin and end flying regional aircraft for regional pay/benefits/work rules. Yet here we are. Fighting each other for the scraps that fall off the mainline dinner table.

But . . . . . I am calling boloney on this. This is going to end up being a negotiating tactic for higher pay/benefits for mainline pilots ONLY. In exchange for continued and possibly expanded outsourcing, mainline pilots at UAL/CAL will take a yet to be determined pay raise/benefit increase/work rule change offered by management.

If anybody on this thread truly believes that UAL/CAL pilots will hold out on this one for the "good of the profession" or any other high and mighty moral reason, please share what you are smoking with the rest of us. Quit bogarting the hookah!!

 

If history is any indication you've just hit the nail on the head.

 

10 years ago I would have said it was a negotiation tactic, but with the erosion of wages at mainline and loss of brand identity, there is definately a push to bring flying in house (and I feel not just at CAL/UAL). It will depend on what they can negotiate to keep the flying competitive. I'm sure the pilots will be pushing the Colgan accident as a reason why if the name is on the side of the aircraft, then pilots under that airline should be in the cockpit. It is a new turn of things, but I wouldn't write it off as a negotiation tactic just yet.

 

Your post blows my mind. I still can't believe that some people think this. Look around!!! 1400 UAL pilots on furlough! 94 737's parked in the last 2 years and who is replacing the flying? REGIONALS!!! CRJ700/900's!! And you honestly think they're going to sell out more?

This is pilots telling management it's over. You want any more airplanes, then you're gonna bring them to mainline. This game is destroying lives, & it's over.

Payrates do no good if there aren't any seats to put your keester in to earn them. This was realized long ago.

 

I'm curious as to why the NWA/Delta merger did not result in the same reduction in scope demand from their pilots? It was the perfect time with lots of available leverage to make a similar demand.

 

Your guess is as good as mine. I was on probation and had no option to vote.

 

Yeah, this is probably the truth. Pilots will demand 100% scope, UA will want more outsourcing, they will compromise in the middle.

Remember, every underpaid RJ drivers subsidizes the higher wages of a mainline pilot. Even if mainline pilots were to agree to fly all the RJ's at current regional rates everyone knows that would not last past the next contract. There's only so much of the pie to go around, and the senior mainline folks would have to give something up to acquire RJ scope.

We can hope that they will hold the current line, but I would be amazed if scope gets rolled back any.

 

...while we're at it, I believe a ban is in order on the "Guppy Killer" bag stickers I've seen some E170/190 guys display. You know who you are and you know who I'm talking about. Makes me wanna barf all over their gear. Some of these kats just don't get it... Yeah, I know you're not to blame that you have to fly mainline-type birds for regional wages, but in the big picture, it's not helping our profession and really doesn't say much for moral character or respect for this career when you display this type of "in your face" pride.

It especially makes me upset when I think of (and keep in touch with) the regional guys I used to work with who'd moved on to Mainline and gave up their seniority during the brief hiring bump, only to be furloughed during their NH-IGS.

 

The company wants the cheapest price (regionals / outsourcing / any other scheme). Some pilots will want all that flying, even at a pay cut.

The rest of the pilots (IMHO) will compromise on mostly status quo. Or more outsourcing in exchange for regional flying (ya, like that'll happen). Or more regionals for less outsourcing. Or the cheapest option for airlines... promise of future big planes and MORE outsourcing / regionals.

I'd love to see ALPA take a poll of all CAL/UAL pilots with their opinions about the above.

 

I'm not sure about 100%. While scope giveaway via negotiation and/or BK has been a Mgt victory, their real victory is getting pilots to fly 100 seat jets for only a few dollars more than 50 seat jets.

All the people saying the 50 seat jet is dead, that is only so because mgmts were able to get the same pilots to agree to fly even larger jets for just small percentages more, so you get 50-100% more seats for a 10% greater cost.

If they can convince regional pilots or RAH for instance to fly 150 seat jets for just a couple more dollars per hour, they will have really found a way to gut wages to the core.
Luv