As a CAL FO I have absolutely no problem going back to flying an RJ, but it's got to be on MAINLINE pay. Look at United, they gave away scope and shortly after they got rid of 1500 guys. So, all of us junior FO's at CAL want the scope protection in place so we don't get furloughed.

The senior guys may be tempted to accept a "payoff" such as a $30 salary increase to release scope, but as soon as they do that, they will lose seniority after CAL furloughs, and lose their seat on a 757 to flow back to a 737 and get paid less. So what did they gain there? Nothing, so that's what all of us are educating the older/senior guys about.

Oh yeah, and FUPM!

 

Not to throw food, just an honest answer to this idea.

This is not fair at all in my book. That flying was done at the mainline, and was sold away in some poor choices. Mainline pilots lost those jobs by the thousands for their contract mistakes. Giving up seniority numbers to get them back would be a big insult added to injury.

Those new jets and old routes displaced mainline pilots who want them back. I would guess the easy way to do this would be to add 90-100 seats at mainline while transitioning 70 seat flying back bit by bit as contracts expire. This would create hiring at the majors including UAL for those wanting to go that route.

UAL paint = UAL pilots.

Time to make the majors worth going to again.


SP

 

I think that some on here are making the assumption that the mainline carriers would buy the express and I don't see that happening. I know that at least some of the RJ's are owned by mainline and operated by express. The future seems to be with 90-120 seaters, not 70 so this would require new purchases. Why would management buy a company with pilots at 15-20 year pay scales when they could hire them at year one pay?

 

Sometimes I have to laugh at this forum. There are post after post about how "Its all mainlines fault we outsourced RJ's". Ok, let's just assume thats true, and forget about the fact that the UAL 70 seat giveaway was voted in with the threat of a CH11 imposed contract that had ZERO scope in it as the alternative. Almost every regional pilot now flying got their job at the expense of a mainline job. So now there is a move to eliminate that flying, and get those jobs back, and what happens? We read posts like this.

Lawsuit? Based on WHAT? You exist at the mercy of UAL/CAL management. Your job is not owed to you, and you are not entitled to it. You want DOH at mainline if the RJs are brought in house??? Bwahahahahahahahahahhahahaa!!! I don't see any mainline furloughed guys with DOH at Expressjet. Expressjet operates on a contract with UAL and CAL. If that contract is phased out or eliminated when it expires, what are you going to base your lawsuit on?

 

This whole thread just re-asserts my belief that pilot's are our own worst enemy. Now this is a pilot on the outside looking in, but it just seems like mainline guys want the regional jobs back for sake of the industry (or their own profession), and regional guys want to keep their jobs or seniority if they get folded in mainline. All of it is reasonable if you sitting on one side or the other. Anyway, like I said I'm on the outside of this whole airline thing so I may be completely off, but none of this makes me want to join the ranks of the "big boys" flying "shiny jets." With that said, good luck to everyone and hope it all works out in the end.

 

Again, maybe my first response was too harsh as I don't have an issue with the average RJ pilot who takes any job. I know it is easy for some who have a job to forget how they got there and I don't begrudge the individual just trying to move up, like I did in the 90s.

My issue is with ALPA, who GAVE the scope away in exchange for empty promises of A funds and other huge missteps. They are trying to represent both sides in this debate and many of us are pretty tired of it.

Best Wishes-

KC

 

Hello auflyer06 and welcome to the forum-

I think the big difference here is that NO major is going to buy their feeder and merge any pilot (I don't care if you have 20 yrs with expressjet!) with mainline. Late nineties Delta and a few others bought their feed but all have been frantically spinning them off in the past few years.

What will happen is the contracts UAL/CAL have with regional carrier X will not be renewed and all of that job security that those employees thought they had will disappear. Just look at the history of ACA. Not trying to be cruel to anybody but you have to know your company's business model and how it fits in to the bigger system. Maybe this will change in the future, who knows.

KC

 

Fact of the matter is this.....these regionals are scrambling to consolidate because they realize the gravy train FFD contracts they've been living on are coming to an end. Why do you think BB @ RAH bought up YX & F9? Because he knows that RAH will have to create their OWN income. The 50 seaters are being parked at a rapid rate, & while there will always be a place for them, they will not be replaced as they time out. Even Bombardier and Embraer realize this. They quit building them. Skywest is buying XJT because it knows it needs a bigger piece of the UAL pie, the same reason they bought ASA from DAL. These regional CEOs are realizing the consolidation will be necessary for their survival, because the Legacy's will stop offering no risk contracts, & now require the Regional to take greater risks and endure losses. They know that they won't be able to undercut each other, as it will turn into a horrible blood bath. They game is changing rapidly, & many are scrambling to be the survivors of the regional group. More consolidation in the regional ranks will occur, and as Scope is maintained/tightened by the Majors the Regionals will be forced to go back to turboprops and finance their own airplanes. Legacy's don't want these airplanes on their balance sheet anymore.

 

I hope this scope pushes through. I fly a 70 turboprop and yes I would love to see mainline have that flying. And a regional be a true regional flying short hops to hubs. Not this 50 seat RJ stuff from Houston to Toronto. And even though some of these oustourced airlines fly nothing but 50 seat jets, whats the difference from them flying 2 50 seat for every 1 70 seat. Just because its a 50 seat jet they think they arent touching mainline flying.

I hope the scope is approved. They deserve it.

 

We need to protect routes. We tried to do that in the last contract at UAL but we were beaten by management.

ORD to MIA,(etc.), should be mainline...