What now for Skywest
10-31-2010 | 10:02 AM
#32
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Eloquent justification for regional service, but it is still outsourced flying.
Even though I have been furloughed for the past two years I still dont regret the move. When I decided to get into the 121 career field it was still career worthy at the mainline level. As long as a large chunk of flying remains out sourced the career will suck, quality of service will suck, and passengers will be unhappy with the overall product no matter who is flying the aircraft.
As far as the Fat Lady singing, we will see what the results of the UniCon JCBA are. If they are positive I may get my career back, If negative it will be time for me to pack my bags and write off the last decade of effort and sacrifice then move on to something else. Perhaps I could manage a Burger King, it probably pays more anyway.
Even though I have been furloughed for the past two years I still dont regret the move. When I decided to get into the 121 career field it was still career worthy at the mainline level. As long as a large chunk of flying remains out sourced the career will suck, quality of service will suck, and passengers will be unhappy with the overall product no matter who is flying the aircraft.
As far as the Fat Lady singing, we will see what the results of the UniCon JCBA are. If they are positive I may get my career back, If negative it will be time for me to pack my bags and write off the last decade of effort and sacrifice then move on to something else. Perhaps I could manage a Burger King, it probably pays more anyway.
THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!
10-31-2010 | 10:35 AM
#33
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 239
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Apology accepted.
I work for ASA. So YES, we are represented by the same union if you're represented by ALPA, as you said. And I'm glad you recognize (and even brag about) the inherent conflict of interest in that ALPA takes my money and takes your money, but helps you "more" because you pay more!
I will tell you this. If your JCBA eliminates RJ flying (putting us out of jobs) and ALPA's president signs said agreement, the upcoming DFR lawsuit will make the RJDC look like a Sunday School meeting. You can count on it. ALPA knows this, and your MEC leaders know this. So everything else is just chest thumping and ****ing in the wind.
As a side note, looking at the pay scale on this site, it's laughable that you would try to say the average mainline pay is $180 a year!!!
I work for ASA. So YES, we are represented by the same union if you're represented by ALPA, as you said. And I'm glad you recognize (and even brag about) the inherent conflict of interest in that ALPA takes my money and takes your money, but helps you "more" because you pay more!
I will tell you this. If your JCBA eliminates RJ flying (putting us out of jobs) and ALPA's president signs said agreement, the upcoming DFR lawsuit will make the RJDC look like a Sunday School meeting. You can count on it. ALPA knows this, and your MEC leaders know this. So everything else is just chest thumping and ****ing in the wind.
As a side note, looking at the pay scale on this site, it's laughable that you would try to say the average mainline pay is $180 a year!!!
ALPA mainline can allow (or be forced to) outsourcing but when they would like it back that's at risk for a DFR lawsuit? ALPA national signed off on the outsource with no DFR threat so they can surely sign off on "insourcing". If what your saying is true you can be sure the mainline guys at UAL (and CAL) will jump ship from ALPA so fast you won't believe it. DFR issue disappears.
If you want to protect your flying advocate ASA to market your own at risk flying. The flying is not your flying...it is at risk and always been at risk. It just didn't seem so the past 10 years. This point has been made ad-nauseum.
10-31-2010 | 12:40 PM
#34
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Joined: Mar 2010
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So its a one way street?
ALPA mainline can allow (or be forced to) outsourcing but when they would like it back that's at risk for a DFR lawsuit? ALPA national signed off on the outsource with no DFR threat so they can surely sign off on "insourcing". If what your saying is true you can be sure the mainline guys at UAL (and CAL) will jump ship from ALPA so fast you won't believe it. DFR issue disappears.
If you want to protect your flying advocate ASA to market your own at risk flying. The flying is not your flying...it is at risk and always been at risk. It just didn't seem so the past 10 years. This point has been made ad-nauseum.
ALPA mainline can allow (or be forced to) outsourcing but when they would like it back that's at risk for a DFR lawsuit? ALPA national signed off on the outsource with no DFR threat so they can surely sign off on "insourcing". If what your saying is true you can be sure the mainline guys at UAL (and CAL) will jump ship from ALPA so fast you won't believe it. DFR issue disappears.
If you want to protect your flying advocate ASA to market your own at risk flying. The flying is not your flying...it is at risk and always been at risk. It just didn't seem so the past 10 years. This point has been made ad-nauseum.
.
"ALPA mainline can allow outsourcing" (emphasis added). You allowed it! You gave it away. But now that you realized you made a mistake, you think you'll just take it back for nothing?!! Try that with a mortgage you got a high rate on. Or a car you bought for too much. Sorry, Jack, but the world doesn't work that way!!!
And you're asking the union I pay dues to to put me out of a job. That's a failure of DFR if I ever heard it!
Threatening to leave ALPA now? *YAWN*. Do it. Tomorrow. C-YA. Then we'll be one of the largest groups and they'll HAVE to do what we want! Be we all know you don't have the huevos to do it, so spare us the lame, self-serving threat.
10-31-2010 | 05:52 PM
#35
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,253
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I will tell you this. If your JCBA eliminates RJ flying (putting us out of jobs) and ALPA's president signs said agreement, the upcoming DFR lawsuit will make the RJDC look like a Sunday School meeting. You can count on it. ALPA knows this, and your MEC leaders know this. So everything else is just chest thumping and ****ing in the wind.
10-31-2010 | 08:03 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 239
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So weak. Please try harder next time on your third post here.
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"ALPA mainline can allow outsourcing" (emphasis added). You allowed it! You gave it away. But now that you realized you made a mistake, you think you'll just take it back for nothing?!! Try that with a mortgage you got a high rate on. Or a car you bought for too much. Sorry, Jack, but the world doesn't work that way!!!
And you're asking the union I pay dues to to put me out of a job. That's a failure of DFR if I ever heard it!
Threatening to leave ALPA now? *YAWN*. Do it. Tomorrow. C-YA. Then we'll be one of the largest groups and they'll HAVE to do what we want! Be we all know you don't have the huevos to do it, so spare us the lame, self-serving threat.
.
"ALPA mainline can allow outsourcing" (emphasis added). You allowed it! You gave it away. But now that you realized you made a mistake, you think you'll just take it back for nothing?!! Try that with a mortgage you got a high rate on. Or a car you bought for too much. Sorry, Jack, but the world doesn't work that way!!!
And you're asking the union I pay dues to to put me out of a job. That's a failure of DFR if I ever heard it!
Threatening to leave ALPA now? *YAWN*. Do it. Tomorrow. C-YA. Then we'll be one of the largest groups and they'll HAVE to do what we want! Be we all know you don't have the huevos to do it, so spare us the lame, self-serving threat.
Ok, Lets play your scenario. What do you propose should happen to that flying being done under the UAL banner? If ALPA national ok's a freeze at the current level is that OK with you or is that a breach of DFR because you won't grow? What price do you think mainline pilots should pay to do the flying they once did? In a perfect world tell us what you think the end result should be.
I think you started the threats there, CPT. I only mentioned the leaving of ALPA because there is, from what I read and hear, a large contingency already at DAL and UAL ready to do it if and when necessary. Don't think that the conflict of interest in DFR between the mainline and regionals is lost on anybody. BTW, it isn't just the conflict of interest. Again, from what I hear, many are pretty angry over the FTDR's and the requirement of 1500hr legislation position.
Question, I wonder if you think ALPA will be a better and stronger union for you if DAL/UAL decide to join, say, APA.
11-01-2010 | 06:33 PM
#37
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Joined: Mar 2010
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You sound pretty worked up about this.
Ok, Lets play your scenario. What do you propose should happen to that flying being done under the UAL banner? If ALPA national ok's a freeze at the current level is that OK with you or is that a breach of DFR because you won't grow? What price do you think mainline pilots should pay to do the flying they once did? In a perfect world tell us what you think the end result should be.
I think you started the threats there, CPT. I only mentioned the leaving of ALPA because there is, from what I read and hear, a large contingency already at DAL and UAL ready to do it if and when necessary. Don't think that the conflict of interest in DFR between the mainline and regionals is lost on anybody. BTW, it isn't just the conflict of interest. Again, from what I hear, many are pretty angry over the FTDR's and the requirement of 1500hr legislation position.
Question, I wonder if you think ALPA will be a better and stronger union for you if DAL/UAL decide to join, say, APA.
Ok, Lets play your scenario. What do you propose should happen to that flying being done under the UAL banner? If ALPA national ok's a freeze at the current level is that OK with you or is that a breach of DFR because you won't grow? What price do you think mainline pilots should pay to do the flying they once did? In a perfect world tell us what you think the end result should be.
I think you started the threats there, CPT. I only mentioned the leaving of ALPA because there is, from what I read and hear, a large contingency already at DAL and UAL ready to do it if and when necessary. Don't think that the conflict of interest in DFR between the mainline and regionals is lost on anybody. BTW, it isn't just the conflict of interest. Again, from what I hear, many are pretty angry over the FTDR's and the requirement of 1500hr legislation position.
Question, I wonder if you think ALPA will be a better and stronger union for you if DAL/UAL decide to join, say, APA.
I've said it several times and I'll say it again. I predict that current number of 50+ RJs WILL be frozen/grandfathered. I think that's fair. What's NOT fair is your MEC's still official position that all 50+ RJ flying is going away.
Yes, it will be much better/stronger. The amount of support I currently get from National is so small, it couldn't get much worse. Plus, we won't have them taking our money and using it against us anymore. So I say don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
11-01-2010 | 09:15 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 239
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This site has a search feature. Just saying since you're new.
I've said it several times and I'll say it again. I predict that current number of 50+ RJs WILL be frozen/grandfathered. I think that's fair. What's NOT fair is your MEC's still official position that all 50+ RJ flying is going away.
Yes, it will be much better/stronger. The amount of support I currently get from National is so small, it couldn't get much worse. Plus, we won't have them taking our money and using it against us anymore. So I say don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
I've said it several times and I'll say it again. I predict that current number of 50+ RJs WILL be frozen/grandfathered. I think that's fair. What's NOT fair is your MEC's still official position that all 50+ RJ flying is going away.
Yes, it will be much better/stronger. The amount of support I currently get from National is so small, it couldn't get much worse. Plus, we won't have them taking our money and using it against us anymore. So I say don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
Maybe if your not happy with your representation you should foot a movement for a Regional Pilot Association? We all know a conflict of interest exists between the two groups and the fix for your two groups won't be easy.
That being said, I guess we will have to disagree as to who owns that flying. The facts are that DAL,UAL,et al. buys every single one of your seats on your aircraft.
Lets imagine the lawsuit as a result of your position that the mainline ALPA required the mainline company not to renew the contract with you and that is a breach in your DFR. Reason would stand that ALPA has a DFR to the mainline pilots as well and that if ALPA national does anything to hinder the recapture of that flying, especially in light of the fact that their company owns and markets those routes, that would be a breach of DFR as well. It cuts both ways, doesn't it? At the end of the day, IMO, a judge (or jury) would see both arguments but would tip to mainline simply because they own those routes in the first place and the regional company was simply one of many vendors hired in the regular course of business.
I think you are correct in that there will be freezing of the aircraft numbers. The current contracts must be adhered to unless mainline wants to pay the stated penalty. We both can agree that won't happen. As the contracts expire they will not be renewed. If scope passes it will be a long slow process...years and years.
Economically speaking, the 50 seats are finished except for limited markets..maybe. The 90-120 seat will be the new market...think C-series economics as fuel prices rise (which they will in no uncertain terms).
The 70 seats are the question mark.
If scope passes at the new UA and with the huge retirements coming up for all the mainlines I would consider jumping ship if one is under 45 or less. Those that get in the front of the line now will enjoy a great ride. Lucky the 22 year old.
I do empathize with your predicament. The airline business is merciless and has ruined many lives. I hope its not yours.
11-02-2010 | 04:40 AM
#40
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Joined: Mar 2010
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