I don't have a dog in this fight but I am continually amazed by the fact that many people do not realize that seniority list combinations are a zero sum game. The only gain to be had from them is at someone else's expense.

Establishing precedent for a "big boost" to one employee group is dangerous, because that means you're also establishing precedent that it is acceptable to have a "big loss" for another group. This big boost comes from somewhere - their future coworkers.


Many factors go into choosing where you want to work. Pay, bases, anticipated seniority progression, type of flying, company future, etc. Those who chose Mesaba pay have prioritized pay or company, those who chose Pinnacle/Colgan may have prioritized seniority. Seniority and its progression are, though not quantifiable, an asset. If you could sell seniority numbers at airlines to the highest bidder, some would go for astronomical amounts. That seniority, when combined with your pay, base, and all those other factors, determine your job value.

If you look at it like a pie chart, Mesaba had it big in the pay category and horrible in the seniority category. Colgan the opposite and Pinnacle somewhere in the middle. Mesaba pilots aren't bringing anything of value to the table in the SLI discussions, their list has nothing to offer, no anticipated seniority progression. They're bringing the other two airlines down.

When combining lists, you have to look at what the pilot groups currently have and where their future would've been separately. Mesaba had a bleak future ahead of it and doesn't have much claim to anything. They jobs may have had value in the pay department but they had dirt in the seniority department, and the SLI is about seniority.

Everyone should hope to have their current position after the SLI, be it senior CRJ captain, reserve Q400, or on furlough. Any improvement would be at the expense of someone else. The thought of putting furloughs ahead of active pilots is preposterous.

You can't tell the future. The only thing you can go off of is what had been decided. In short....

Pinnacle was headed towards slow hiring.
Colgan was hiring significantly for current/future deliveries.
Mesaba was furloughing with Saabs to be parked.


If I were a betting man, and we were guessing the future, I would say that those Mesaba CRJ-200s would've been next on the chopping block, making things even worse. But, you can't go off of guesses.

If we were talking contract issues, I'd agree. SLI has nothing to do with contract issues, though. If you line up a 9E seniority list to, say, a SWA seniority list, what's different other than the number of people and the DOHs?

I can't begin to disagree stronger...

I don't quite understand why everyone thinks that because we were parking the SAAB's we were taking the final plunge. Look at our performance. Despite our rates we were profitable for NWA and Delta. Look at our list of smoking air frames.

I worked in the check hauling business a long time. The company I worked for was bought out by a competing company that was losing to us and seriously looking at chapter 7. Think about that...
I have no idea why Pinnacle Management decided to sign this deal. I have no illusions. I know that Pinnacle wasn't afraid of us. However, I do believe that after years of troubling performance both Delta and Continental - Pinnacle had to make this deal work somehow.

Being owned by Delta or Northwest was no picnic. Sham Bankruptcy, getting planes removed, added, removed...I sincerely don't for a minute believe we were going to stay at 41 CRJ900's and 19 CRJ200's for very long.

A lot of these threads mention pilots being selfish. As a CRJ200 Capt I received no pay increase. I get a slight decrease in health insurance. Other than that I don't really feel the love. However...

I have a certain pride that most of the language is from the Mesaba Contract. I have considerable pride in helping Colgan Pilots get up to 48% pay increases, extension language, etc. Things they may not have been able to get on their own. Pinnacle Pilots didn't get as good of upgrade in rates. A significant increase in their 10 year old health insurance premiums. But they also get a signing bonus that no one else gets.

What do we bring to the SLI? 129 spots. Senior ones. 129 SENIOR Mesaba pilots will be going over to Delta over time. Granted no Pinnacle or Colgan pilots can go to Delta, everyone from the whole list will benefit from my group. 129 CRJ900 spots is not nothing to offer. Maybe if there was a fence that made it so only Mesaba pilots benefit from the Mesaba flows I'd agree with you but that won't happen.

As I have said before - The BEST I am going to get is to hold my seat and base. No 25% to 48% raise. I proudly voted yes on this industry average contract knowing I was helping Colgan and Pinnacle. Maybe that's nothing, but I think we bring a lot to the table.

If you have no dog in this fight... how is it preposterous to think of putting furloughs ahead of active guys...

I'm glad you don't work for us man :)

Part of SLI is also getting along with the post SLI group... so, one consideration for me is wanting everyone to get the most "fair" integration possible. None of this "we bought them" or "we've got 900s" or "we've got better contract language we brought" or "our training program is better"....

We're so desperate for pilots that putting pilots ahead of us wouldn't really do much anyways...

when you combine an adequately staffed group (Mesaba), with two SEVERELY understaffed groups, the result is no one is going to lose their current spot.

You're kidding right? as someone else, said most of the contract was built on the previous XJ contract. If anything, we brought the other two airlines up to a respectable level in the industry as far as work rules and pay are concerned. With more flows leaving, industry hiring starting to pick up, can you honestly say no anticipated seniority progression? You are down right complacent if you don't realize that...

Let's not forget that Mesaba is the world's largest CRJ900 operator. All those 900s, they bring about the highest paying jobs in the industry right now and the only airframes that Delta wants to keep around. I'd say that is bringing something to the table.

You took my quote out of context. You can't be different in contract issues but the same in SLI issues. Contract issues are related to SLI issues. Our contracts, business models, way of life, treatment by management, expectations, reasons for working and on and on are so different from the majors that the precedents set by Major SLIs do not apply to us. At least that is my contention, agree or disagree.

I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. The seniority list determines where you bid for position and what your line look likes. It has nothing to do with how long your max duty day is, what your pay rate is or what your min days off are. The #1 guy in base has all of those the same as the last guy in base (minus pay rate, which is determined by longevity not seniority).

Ehh, thats hard to say. We are parking Saabs, but that doesn't meant we could have gotten a different airframe. I guess that same could have been said for 9E, with 120+ CRJ's and contracts expiring soon (something that still worries me) and hardly any 900s, you could say that the two companies needed each other. 9E for our 41 900s, which are the future of this business, and XJ for the Saabs and Q400, which also is the future of our industry.
Heck, if anyones future looked bright it was Colgans. They had all of the growth, but lacked good working conditions. The fact is we are all together now, and each group deserves the same amount of respect when it comes to integration.