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CO-Pilot time

Old 03-23-2011, 09:29 AM
  #11  
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the FAA expects a pilot flying as a first officer on an aircraft in which he holds an unrestricted type rating on to log the time that he is the sole manipulator of the controls as PIC.
What the FAA feels is right is not always how the world works. If you start logging PIC time when you are a first officer and present that in any shape or form in a resume or interview there will be many questions thrown your way. This is probably number 2 (behind recent DUI) in top ten ways to be shown the door instantly at an interview or not given the interview in the first place.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:29 AM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Coto Pilot View Post
there are hundreds of American pilots flying in Asia as Captains that were formally first officers flying in the US.
That may be true. But China isn't for everyone - and you can't get a job at UPS/FDX/SWA/DAL/UAL/AMR/LCC with "SIC as PIC" time.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:52 AM
  #13  
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Even if you have a full type rating in the plane that you are flying, if you are not the Captain and the one that signed for the airplane you NEVER log pilot in command time. IF the Captain is not able to continue his duties as PIC (such as he dies) then you are the only one left and have assumed command and can log that time as PIC but id recommend putting a note in the comments.

As a first officer you log total time and SIC time for the entire duration of the flight regardless of who was on the controls.

What are you basing this on? I have copied the FAR which is very clear. I have been hired by seven airlines over the years, 5 of them majors and this has never been brought up. The FAA is the governing authority, not a possible future employer. When you complete an application, they will have you place your time where they want it which is fine, but this is how it should be logged. Please site your reference.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:00 AM
  #14  
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you guys are funny.


1 hour PIC turbine + a cool story does not usually = minimum 1000 hours PIC turbine.

semantics.
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Old 03-23-2011, 10:35 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Coto Pilot View Post
What are you basing this on? I have copied the FAR which is very clear. I have been hired by seven airlines over the years, 5 of them majors and this has never been brought up. The FAA is the governing authority, not a possible future employer. When you complete an application, they will have you place your time where they want it which is fine, but this is how it should be logged. Please site your reference.
I give up. You are correct. Log time as a first officer however you would like. Although the FAA is the governing authority they are useless when it comes to how your logbook stacks up for a job. A future employer is exactly who matters when it comes to whats in your logbook.

When you apply to Southwest just make sure you subtract this time to meet their definition of what PIC turbine really is
2 PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot in Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander, Evaluator, or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged as "Other Time" will not be considered.
She we argue about when one should log actual next?
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:20 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by usmc-sgt View Post
I give up. You are correct. Log time as a first officer however you would like. Although the FAA is the governing authority they are useless when it comes to how your logbook stacks up for a job. A future employer is exactly who matters when it comes to whats in your logbook.

When you apply to Southwest just make sure you subtract this time to meet their definition of what PIC turbine really is

She we argue about when one should log actual next?
Speaking of which, if you're driving around an airport and the RVR is so low, you turn to your fellow pilot and say "I CANT SEE ANYTHING! Tell tower we're stopping the plane!"

Can you log that time as actual, even though you're on the ground?
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:26 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by usmc-sgt View Post
I give up. You are correct. Log time as a first officer however you would like. Although the FAA is the governing authority they are useless when it comes to how your logbook stacks up for a job. A future employer is exactly who matters when it comes to whats in your logbook.

When you apply to Southwest just make sure you subtract this time to meet their definition of what PIC turbine really is
The FAA is the government authority which also means they grant ATP's...something required now at most of the majors hiring. Do you expect someone to not LOG PIC just to keep his book in line with SWA's requirements and wait another 6 years to upgrade before he can get an ATP and maybe go to JetBlue?

Do not confuse resume/application time with logbook time the two can be different and the companies accepting resumes do not expect them to match...unless you're claiming MORE time than is in your logbook.

Last edited by blastoff; 03-23-2011 at 11:34 AM. Reason: USMC-Sgt corrected himself
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:27 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by lolwut View Post
Speaking of which, if you're driving around an airport and the RVR is so low, you turn to your fellow pilot and say "I CANT SEE ANYTHING! Tell tower we're stopping the plane!"

Can you log that time as actual, even though you're on the ground?
This is funny.. I don't care who you are!!
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:32 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by blastoff View Post
Totally untrue, and has been beaten to death in this forum...pretty shocking this came from a Moderator posting several posts below the actual 14CFR61 verbiage. If you have a PIC Type rating and are sole manipulator, you can log PIC. You do not, however, count that time on your SWA application...but the FAA is interested in that time for meeting the requirements toward an ATP.
You are incorrect, sir. This may be true in a king air/part 91 world, but in the 121 world, the one who signs is the PIC, no question about it. Every pilot at Southwest has a 737 PIC type, including FO's. The FO never signs or logs PIC, because the "C" in PIC is never met.
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Old 03-23-2011, 11:41 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by 5ontheglide View Post
you guys are funny.


1 hour PIC turbine + a cool story does not usually = minimum 1000 hours PIC turbine.

semantics.

Good point. But having 1000 TPIC can get you an interview where you would get to tell the cool story of 1 hour TPIC and NOT being PIC typed. In which case, they wouldn't care about that bizarre 1 hour anyway.
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