Like I said, I don't know if 1500 is the right number.

I'll stand behind my observation that 1500/500 may be good experience for a newhire (1500TT/500Multi) but it's not sufficient for a 121 crew (1500Capt/500FO).

To put it another way, if I were to deploy to Afghanistan I would want to learn from the guy on his second tour, not the guy that got there a week before me.

 

I think 500/50 is too low for a 121 F/O...

 

I think 1000/100 is too low... its called an ATP for a reason, ALL 121 flight crew members should have an ATP.... end of story. I know there are those who disagree..... but those are my thoughts on the matter and have been for nearly 20 years.

 

Boom. Nailed it.

 

I like this idea

 

What business plan at which regional would support that kind of pay?

 

Ya, "good enough" should be the standard. Minimums. Just scraping by.

Good plan.

 

I'm not against the 1500 hour/atp rule per se, but my question is, how are newer pilots supposed to get there? (I know I’ll get a lot of snide remarks to instruct, banner tow, etc, etc.) But hours are even harder to get then they were several years ago. The number of students has dropped drastically, and other non-instructing time building options have dried up with increasing fuel prices. Example: I don’t know how many pilots have told me to go fly checks to build time -well they don’t fly bank checks anymore that’s all electronic.

In adddition to the declining number of students, cfi wages are worse than they were in the past –a lot of places pay only $10-15, even as low as $7 or 8. I like instructing and don’t have a problem with doing that, but I’m lucky if I get 30 or 35 hours in a month at $17/hr (sadly that is a decent cfi wage these days) and after working a second job been taking home less than $1000 per month. Living on that is simply not sustainable. I’m not sure if it is financially possible to get to 1500 hours, and then probably instructing until at least 2000-2500+ hours to get the 500 XC for the ATP, AND then shelling out a few more thousand to rent a plane and pay a DPE to actually get the ATP cert. Bannertowing and diver driving could help build TT faster, but will not help with the 500 XC which will be harder to get than getting to the 1500 hour TT point.

 

Well, hope is not lost. Take 'check flying'-yeah there are fewer of those jobs, but they are certainly not all gone. Think in terms of freight dog flying, because there is a whole world of stuff being flown-UPS contracts, medical, haz-mat. Since January, I can't go on climbto350.com and not see at least one 135 operator advertising.

As far as CFIing goes-yeah I did it for three and half years. Pay and QOL still are lacking most places. As far as students drying up...yeah, but there's also less CFIs being produced. At least in my neck of the woods. The other thing to consider is getting hired on someplace with a foreign contract. For the next few years there should be tons of Chinese, Indian, etc. students Oh, and in 2007 with the hiring boom at the regionals, CFIs were dang scarce! I saw places advertising decent pay and benefits for CFIs. Who would have thought!? Of course with the crash of 2008, that went at away lightning fast, and starving pilots lined up for CFI jobs again.

Lastly, the airlines will start ponying up when the well runs dry. I have told people that when the flow of candidates slows, the regionals are going to start sponsoring people through various stages of their training. Of course no one believes me, but look at Eagle---they are now taking 500/50 hour wonders if they sign a contract and go ATP's CRJ course.

There are definitely avenues. I think one must be willing to move around. Oh shoot, did I mention Alaskan flying gigs???

 

With some of the people that think that the only way to really "know" how to fly is to be a CFI for 2-3 years riding in the right seat while someone else is "trying to kill you" maybe rather than the 1500 rule, it should be 1500 dual given. Isn't the reason the FAA has check flights are to ensure you are able to fly? Is 500 hours low to be a 121 pilot? I don't know the answer to that. I think the answer has a lot to do with how you learned to fly, the quality of instruction, the QUALITY of the time you have and many other things. There isn't a cookie cutter number. A guy with 1500 hours of point A-B, pattern work and even some CFI work isn't automatically a better pilot than someone who got their COMM at 200 hours, done a lot of real world flying in weather and has had equipment issues that required them to make a choice and get the airplane down safe. I know that some CFIs work hard for the hours and know a lot. I have also seen CFIs that just ride around in the right seat, never see a real emergency or any weather. While not a CFI myself I would imagine that after 20 hours or so probably 75% of students aren't "trying to kill" the CFI anymore if at all. Not dogging CFIs in any way, I am just saying that 1500 hours in the right seat doesn't make you ready to fly the space shuttle. It is about the quality of your flight time, not the quantity.