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1500 hours / ATP for Part 121 rule?

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1500 hours / ATP for Part 121 rule?

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Old 06-22-2011 | 02:24 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Mason32
Just want to see if I understand this correctly.... people are upset because they are changing the rule that will mandate that pilots flying my children, parents and other relatives around have some a minimum level of experience first before getting into a jet aircraft..... and this is a bad thing how? It would seem to ANYBODY that requiring more experience is a good thing. The only people who would not support this, are those who do not have it.... the passengers have always expected this, and the Colgan incident just highlighted that it wasn't required at all... so it's being fixed.
Actually, I consider it extremely arrogant that these low timers expect - read that as feel entitled - to enter the profession at the top of the food chain rather than learn their way through with hard work.
You misunderstand us. We arent opposed to a minimum level of experience, we just believe that 1500 hours isn't what makes a pilot. It is just an arbitrary number. Experience is a result of quality of flight time, not quantity.
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Old 06-22-2011 | 02:46 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by skyxbomb
That's precisely why there will be exceptions to the 1500 hour rule. I graduated at riddle with 300/45 but passed the crj course at riddle. It's not the 1 week ATP Crj course; at riddle it's the same training as regionals. Very small percentages of riddle guys actually go through airline concentration, worth it in my book.
IMO the above attitude is problematic in our industry. At it's best, training replicates, not replaces, experience. About 10,000 guys, myself included, can do a v1 cut or engine failure in the sim while carrying on a conversation about the waitress at hooters, with our heart rates significantly lower than when looking at said waitress. I've had one engine failure, on approach, in a turbine powered airplane. That experience was worth more than 100 trips to the sim. The problem with training (especially simulator based training), is that there are no real consequences for bad decisions or improper technique/procedure. I'd rather have a fresh ATP in my right seat than a 500 hour "exemption" because the ATP has 1000 hours of accepting and dealing with the very real consequences of his actions. IMO you cant train that into a person.

Lastly, an exemption is merely removing barrier to entry in this profession. Typically the higher the barrier to entry, the better the compensation and quality of life. There are thousands of furloughed guys with thousands of hours, and thousands of Regional, ACMI, Fractional and 135 Captains out there waiting to fill the void that will be created by age 65 and rest rules. As a special "exemption," it's very likely that if your not on the very front edge of the hiring "wave" being predicted, then your best case scenario might just be a quick upgrade in a Dash-8 or RJ. Then you can spend the rest of your days sitting on your "stepping stone" complaining about the little paycheck you got by spending a lot of money instead of putting in a little more effort.

Kudos to those who realize hard work and dedication to your professional responsibility will make you a better pilot, not some overpriced college.

Disclaimers:
I'm a riddle grad
My comments on training apply to a much lesser degree to the fine members of our armed forces.
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Old 06-22-2011 | 03:01 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by freightguy
I agree 100%. And can you believe it...our own union...ALPA....is in favour of reducing the minimum required hours to 500! They are on bed with regional airline industry management. Regional airline managements want lower minimums to keep the costs low and to ensure a never ending supply of wide-eyed newbies. If you don't believe me, check this out:
.

Maybe your union, but not mine. Perhaps you need to elect new leadership.
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Old 06-22-2011 | 03:11 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Walkeraviator
You misunderstand us. We arent opposed to a minimum level of experience, we just believe that 1500 hours isn't what makes a pilot. It is just an arbitrary number. Experience is a result of quality of flight time, not quantity.

You are correct, it IS an arbitrary number.... it's the arbitrary number the FAA makes you have to have to fly boxes under 135 as PIC IFR.... if you can't fly boxes in a Cessna 172 under IFR as PIC in a small 135 operation, what makes you qualified to carry people in a transport category part 121 operation?

it's a loophole in the system that is well overdue being fixed.

Oh, and one last thing. You will make more command decisions flying that C150 around the pattern a few hundred times, then you will EVER make as an FO at one of the regional carriers; and THAT'S what Quality Experience is.
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Old 06-22-2011 | 03:30 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Mason32
You are correct, it IS an arbitrary number.... it's the arbitrary number the FAA makes you have to have to fly boxes under 135 as PIC IFR.... if you can't fly boxes in a Cessna 172 under IFR as PIC in a small 135 operation, what makes you qualified to carry people in a transport category part 121 operation?

it's a loophole in the system that is well overdue being fixed.

Oh, and one last thing. You will make more command decisions flying that C150 around the pattern a few hundred times, then you will EVER make as an FO at one of the regional carriers; and THAT'S what Quality Experience is.
First get your facts straight. 1500 hours are not required to fly IFR 135. 1200 hours is that number.
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Old 06-22-2011 | 05:51 PM
  #86  
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First, get his point, whatever number you use....
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Old 06-22-2011 | 06:40 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Luv2Rotate
I went to Riddle and didn't spend the extra cash for the CRJ course. Maybe be worth it in your book but not worth the extra payment in loans out of my checkbook each month. Am I a lesser pilot?
Absolutely, you are a lesser pilot. You never will know as much about flying a CRJ a Riddle CRJ Course Graduate. Lucky for you, you are a only fly a Q.
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Old 06-22-2011 | 07:18 PM
  #88  
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looks like im sending a resume to PSA
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Old 06-22-2011 | 09:43 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Mason32
You are correct, it IS an arbitrary number.... it's the arbitrary number the FAA makes you have to have to fly boxes under 135 as PIC IFR.... if you can't fly boxes in a Cessna 172 under IFR as PIC in a small 135 operation, what makes you qualified to carry people in a transport category part 121 operation?

it's a loophole in the system that is well overdue being fixed.

Oh, and one last thing. You will make more command decisions flying that C150 around the pattern a few hundred times, then you will EVER make as an FO at one of the regional carriers; and THAT'S what Quality Experience is.
Its the same as 121 actually. 1500 hours is required for the ATP, an ATP is required to fly as PIC in 121. 1200 is the actual requirement for 135 PIC. There are zero requirements other than a wet commercial to fly as SIC in 121 or 135.
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Old 06-22-2011 | 10:37 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by seafeye
The person in the right seat has to be able to take control of the airplane incase something was to happen to the captain. I doubt that will end on a positive note.
Are you kidding me? If the Mythbusters can be talked down with 0 TT, I'd hope a guy with 400 TT who's passed a P.C. and SIC type ride could get it down in one piece. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard there, Capt.
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