IBT 357 (futile) Strike Vote at RAH
10-20-2011, 07:57 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 110
Seriously F9 Driver -- get a life. Your sad little life is far better than 50% of the guys at RAH that are stuck in FO slots because their top 500 lifers won't move on. The moral is horrible, they hate their lives, many of them trust the union only slightly more than they trust BB as they feel they got sold out on integration (Lynx guys from 2009 coming in over 2007 RAH hires) while the top 500 rolled merrily along gaining job security. I know dozens of guys over there that are dying to get out. More than 30 of them left last month for difficult, life altering, options -- with little or no support from their own or other pilot groups.
Most of the 50%er's (FO's) are guys that just wanted to earn their stripes and move on. Now they are stuck going over seas, starting over at $24 an hour somewhere else, giving up flying all together, or eating BB's crap with no upgrade or a raise in sight for the foreseeable future. These are not the guys that took the Midwest flying, or want your seat on the bus. They just wanted to put in their 3,000 to 5,000 hours (probably like you did) and move on. They all now have 5,000 or more hours and will be making significant sacrifices in their life to make ends meet or leave the profession all together.
Despite all of that they voted to cut their hours to avoid furloughs. Now they will vote to strike despite having lived on poverty wages for more than five years. All of this in the name of their pilot group, supporting the profession, and solidarity. And you want to degrade their actions??? Shame on you and anyone that shares your beliefs. You are a disgusting piece of humanity who clearly has no respect for other's sacrifices or knowledge of the industry as a whole.
Statements such as this make you an embarrassment to the profession and your pilot group. Many in our group have much more respect for the RAH guys than the FAPA guys. You guys are dancing with the devil and the music is going to stop. All your flaming remarks will make for little sympathy from the rest of us for the FAPA folks when the RAH ship sinks.
Most of the 50%er's (FO's) are guys that just wanted to earn their stripes and move on. Now they are stuck going over seas, starting over at $24 an hour somewhere else, giving up flying all together, or eating BB's crap with no upgrade or a raise in sight for the foreseeable future. These are not the guys that took the Midwest flying, or want your seat on the bus. They just wanted to put in their 3,000 to 5,000 hours (probably like you did) and move on. They all now have 5,000 or more hours and will be making significant sacrifices in their life to make ends meet or leave the profession all together.
Despite all of that they voted to cut their hours to avoid furloughs. Now they will vote to strike despite having lived on poverty wages for more than five years. All of this in the name of their pilot group, supporting the profession, and solidarity. And you want to degrade their actions??? Shame on you and anyone that shares your beliefs. You are a disgusting piece of humanity who clearly has no respect for other's sacrifices or knowledge of the industry as a whole.
Statements such as this make you an embarrassment to the profession and your pilot group. Many in our group have much more respect for the RAH guys than the FAPA guys. You guys are dancing with the devil and the music is going to stop. All your flaming remarks will make for little sympathy from the rest of us for the FAPA folks when the RAH ship sinks.
10-20-2011, 08:10 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Eff Oh Won Fo Fife
Posts: 325
Sure. I'll take the flamebait.
Yep. -190 rates. That's a good starting point.
We support giving them the tools and backing to negotiate the best contract that they can. That includes letting them inform company know that we are ready to strike as soon as we are released for self-help.
Not holding our breath, just withholding our labor.
Is it also part of commuter's business plans to buy "major" airlines?
FAPA to the rescue!
Hence the CBA changes.
Double irony from a pilot group whose operation is being kept afloat by those funds gained by circumventing other pilots' scope language.
I like this clip better:
Jedi Kittens Strike Back - YouTube
Be careful not to get too much butter on the keyboard.
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
You file for mediation after the talks resumed for 3 lousy months and expect the mediator to release you because the company won't give you retro pay on JetBlue 190 rates? Really? You couldn't have timed this mediation worse if you had tried.
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
"Vote yes for this if you support your Exco and negotiating committee."
Not the point of a strike vote.
Not the point of a strike vote.
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
"Vote yes if you feel it is time for us to have a contract."
Or just hold your breath until the mediator gives you what you want.
Or just hold your breath until the mediator gives you what you want.
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
"Vote yes if you feel you are under compensated."
You work for a commuter. It's part of the business plan to pay you badly. You quitting and moving onto the majors is the desired effect.
You work for a commuter. It's part of the business plan to pay you badly. You quitting and moving onto the majors is the desired effect.
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
"Vote yes if you feel we need a change in our scheduling language."
See holding your breath above. Maybe if you hadn't alienated the FAPA guys you could have gotten some help with this.
See holding your breath above. Maybe if you hadn't alienated the FAPA guys you could have gotten some help with this.
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
"Vote yes if you feel our vacancy language is inadequate."
Didn't 357 lose an arbitration over this one?
Didn't 357 lose an arbitration over this one?
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
"Vote yes if you feel our scope language needs modification."
I thought you traded everything under the sun in 2003 for industry leading scope? Now it needs modification? Irony from a group who are employed because of circumventing other pilots' scope language.
I thought you traded everything under the sun in 2003 for industry leading scope? Now it needs modification? Irony from a group who are employed because of circumventing other pilots' scope language.
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
2:25 into this sums it up perfectly Bluto's Big Speech Scene - Animal House Movie (1978) - HD - YouTube
Jedi Kittens Strike Back - YouTube
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
I've got my popcorn ready.
10-20-2011, 08:13 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Downwind, headed straight for the rocks, shanghaied aboard the ship of fools.
Posts: 1,128
Circumvent scope? We're just playing the hand all you wise old-timers dealt us. You gave the scope away and allowed your companies to help create these C-scale jobs. This is the best route to better jobs and obviously why we're here. You're probably right that it will be some time before we're actually released. Probably never happen as we'll be dragged under along with your sinking ship. None of us pilots wanted you or Midwest. You really should direct your angst elsewhere.
10-20-2011, 08:57 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Driving a Bus for Recreational Pleasure.
Posts: 544
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
Seriously? You guys are sooooo far from being released you can't even see it from here. While many of us can sympathize with your frustration, having been stuck on the bottom rung of the airline career ladder because of the age 65 rule and a generally bad economy, but a STRIKE VOTE to show you're upset? Really?
Your dysfunctional union stalled the negotiations for years while they ousted the last crooks and then tried to grab our seniority. You file for mediation after the talks resumed for 3 lousy months and expect the mediator to release you because the company won't give you retro pay on JetBlue 190 rates? Really? You couldn't have timed this mediation worse if you had tried.
"Vote yes for this if you support your Exco and negotiating committee."
Not the point of a strike vote.
"Vote yes if you feel it is time for us to have a contract."
Or just hold your breath until the mediator gives you what you want.
"Vote yes if you feel you are under compensated."
You work for a commuter. It's part of the business plan to pay you badly. You quitting and moving onto the majors is the desired effect.
"Vote yes if you feel we need a change in our scheduling language."
See holding your breath above. Maybe if you hadn't alienated the FAPA guys you could have gotten some help with this.
"Vote yes if you feel our vacancy language is inadequate."
Didn't 357 lose an arbitration over this one?
"Vote yes if you feel our scope language needs modification."
I thought you traded everything under the sun in 2003 for industry leading scope? Now it needs modification? Irony from a group who are employed because of circumventing other pilots' scope language.
2:25 into this sums it up perfectly Bluto's Big Speech Scene - Animal House Movie (1978) - HD - YouTube
I've got my popcorn ready.
Your dysfunctional union stalled the negotiations for years while they ousted the last crooks and then tried to grab our seniority. You file for mediation after the talks resumed for 3 lousy months and expect the mediator to release you because the company won't give you retro pay on JetBlue 190 rates? Really? You couldn't have timed this mediation worse if you had tried.
"Vote yes for this if you support your Exco and negotiating committee."
Not the point of a strike vote.
"Vote yes if you feel it is time for us to have a contract."
Or just hold your breath until the mediator gives you what you want.
"Vote yes if you feel you are under compensated."
You work for a commuter. It's part of the business plan to pay you badly. You quitting and moving onto the majors is the desired effect.
"Vote yes if you feel we need a change in our scheduling language."
See holding your breath above. Maybe if you hadn't alienated the FAPA guys you could have gotten some help with this.
"Vote yes if you feel our vacancy language is inadequate."
Didn't 357 lose an arbitration over this one?
"Vote yes if you feel our scope language needs modification."
I thought you traded everything under the sun in 2003 for industry leading scope? Now it needs modification? Irony from a group who are employed because of circumventing other pilots' scope language.
2:25 into this sums it up perfectly Bluto's Big Speech Scene - Animal House Movie (1978) - HD - YouTube
I've got my popcorn ready.
10-21-2011, 03:51 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 387
Originally Posted by AirbornPegasus
Seriously F9 Driver -- get a life. Your sad little life is far better than 50% of the guys at RAH that are stuck in FO slots because their top 500 lifers won't move on. The moral is horrible, they hate their lives, many of them trust the union only slightly more than they trust BB as they feel they got sold out on integration (Lynx guys from 2009 coming in over 2007 RAH hires) while the top 500 rolled merrily along gaining job security. I know dozens of guys over there that are dying to get out. More than 30 of them left last month for difficult, life altering, options -- with little or no support from their own or other pilot groups.
Most of the 50%er's (FO's) are guys that just wanted to earn their stripes and move on. Now they are stuck going over seas, starting over at $24 an hour somewhere else, giving up flying all together, or eating BB's crap with no upgrade or a raise in sight for the foreseeable future. These are not the guys that took the Midwest flying, or want your seat on the bus. They just wanted to put in their 3,000 to 5,000 hours (probably like you did) and move on. They all now have 5,000 or more hours and will be making significant sacrifices in their life to make ends meet or leave the profession all together.
Despite all of that they voted to cut their hours to avoid furloughs. Now they will vote to strike despite having lived on poverty wages for more than five years. All of this in the name of their pilot group, supporting the profession, and solidarity. And you want to degrade their actions??? Shame on you and anyone that shares your beliefs. You are a disgusting piece of humanity who clearly has no respect for other's sacrifices or knowledge of the industry as a whole.
Statements such as this make you an embarrassment to the profession and your pilot group. Many in our group have much more respect for the RAH guys than the FAPA guys. You guys are dancing with the devil and the music is going to stop. All your flaming remarks will make for little sympathy from the rest of us for the FAPA folks when the RAH ship sinks.
Most of the 50%er's (FO's) are guys that just wanted to earn their stripes and move on. Now they are stuck going over seas, starting over at $24 an hour somewhere else, giving up flying all together, or eating BB's crap with no upgrade or a raise in sight for the foreseeable future. These are not the guys that took the Midwest flying, or want your seat on the bus. They just wanted to put in their 3,000 to 5,000 hours (probably like you did) and move on. They all now have 5,000 or more hours and will be making significant sacrifices in their life to make ends meet or leave the profession all together.
Despite all of that they voted to cut their hours to avoid furloughs. Now they will vote to strike despite having lived on poverty wages for more than five years. All of this in the name of their pilot group, supporting the profession, and solidarity. And you want to degrade their actions??? Shame on you and anyone that shares your beliefs. You are a disgusting piece of humanity who clearly has no respect for other's sacrifices or knowledge of the industry as a whole.
Statements such as this make you an embarrassment to the profession and your pilot group. Many in our group have much more respect for the RAH guys than the FAPA guys. You guys are dancing with the devil and the music is going to stop. All your flaming remarks will make for little sympathy from the rest of us for the FAPA folks when the RAH ship sinks.
As I initially said - i sympathize with your plight. Many here like to talk about the music stopping and what will happen to the F9 pilots. The music stopped 5 years ago and left the 50% of your pilots stuck in the right seat with awful QOL. That sucks.
Your leadership hasn't set any reasonable expectations for what will come out of the mediation process, and is now asking for a strike vote. You'll get a huge turn out and yes vote for that. For what? Leverage? The one thing abundantly clear to management is that you want more than you've got. A strike vote now ONLY sends that message.
You're in a bad spot, working from a deep deep hole. I'm not a management lackey and hope you get "more" but a industry average contract (which is a huge improvment) during these economic times is a bit more realistic.
There was an antagonistic tone in my first post - directed at 357 leadership. They've done you a disservice. It's painful to watch from the outside where, believe it or not, there is support for you getting a better contract. This isn't the right way to do it.
Good luck!
10-21-2011, 07:08 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Captain 121
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
You guys are missing my point and you are reacting a bit too emotionally. Your union leadership is leading you astray.
As I initially said - i sympathize with your plight. Many here like to talk about the music stopping and what will happen to the F9 pilots. The music stopped 5 years ago and left the 50% of your pilots stuck in the right seat with awful QOL. That sucks.
Your leadership hasn't set any reasonable expectations for what will come out of the mediation process, and is now asking for a strike vote. You'll get a huge turn out and yes vote for that. For what? Leverage? The one thing abundantly clear to management is that you want more than you've got. A strike vote now ONLY sends that message.
You're in a bad spot, working from a deep deep hole. I'm not a management lackey and hope you get "more" but a industry average contract (which is a huge improvment) during these economic times is a bit more realistic.
There was an antagonistic tone in my first post - directed at 357 leadership. They've done you a disservice. It's painful to watch from the outside where, believe it or not, there is support for you getting a better contract. This isn't the right way to do it.
Good luck!
As I initially said - i sympathize with your plight. Many here like to talk about the music stopping and what will happen to the F9 pilots. The music stopped 5 years ago and left the 50% of your pilots stuck in the right seat with awful QOL. That sucks.
Your leadership hasn't set any reasonable expectations for what will come out of the mediation process, and is now asking for a strike vote. You'll get a huge turn out and yes vote for that. For what? Leverage? The one thing abundantly clear to management is that you want more than you've got. A strike vote now ONLY sends that message.
You're in a bad spot, working from a deep deep hole. I'm not a management lackey and hope you get "more" but a industry average contract (which is a huge improvment) during these economic times is a bit more realistic.
There was an antagonistic tone in my first post - directed at 357 leadership. They've done you a disservice. It's painful to watch from the outside where, believe it or not, there is support for you getting a better contract. This isn't the right way to do it.
Good luck!
10-21-2011, 08:13 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Posts: 387
Originally Posted by LoitaHills
You feign a misunderstood dictum...your first post indicates your disdain for the IBT and pilots who work for the regional that bought your company. It follows the pattern of posts by many F9 pilots on this site and others. Instead of identifying with the plight of fellow pilots or even encouraging them, you ridicule, disparage, and mock those of less fortunate circumstances than yourself. You place yourself above those less fortunate as someone who is better than they are--- simply because you fly a larger aircraft and once worked for an LCC that used to care about its employees. You are a sad, sad, little man.
10-22-2011, 09:11 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Captain 121
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by F9 Driver
Evedently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
Move on...better yet, Moderator, shut the thread down. Pilots (and their egos) are their own worst enemies. No need for you to demonstrate it, again.
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