American Eagle reaches TA w/ pilots
10-23-2011 | 10:31 AM
#51
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Only till the first amendment round in 2014. Then all pay rates will be tied to the cheapest competitors and tied to their longevity as well.
Management can persue the arbitration process if necessary to recalculate longevity/rates downward yearly thereafter, ensuring you are "competitive" pilots.....another word is "cheap".
You're screwed.
Management can persue the arbitration process if necessary to recalculate longevity/rates downward yearly thereafter, ensuring you are "competitive" pilots.....another word is "cheap".
You're screwed.
you crack me up!!! Does this make you feel better in your every day life that you come on here and scare people.
10-23-2011 | 11:22 AM
#54
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Clearly, you're already ready to roll over. I hope the majority there aren't as far gone as you are.
10-23-2011 | 12:02 PM
#55
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Reclined
I'd say eaglefly is correct. An eagle guy emailed me your proposed TA, and on page 9 it says this:
Whatever tiny raise they are giving you guys now to buy your yes vote; will be lost through benchmarking in 2014 when you get reduced to the average of the companies selected for comparison... in other words, you become the mid level pay... and then when they go through industry average benchmarking, you're lower.... and they end u lower... a vicious cycle of continuing wage and work rule reductions.
Longevity
o Benchmark group: a subset of large regional carriers that meet the following criteria:
- Operate 150 aircraft or more with at least 44 seats
- Operate within the contiguous forty-eight (48) states of the United States
- Majority of aircraft are operated under capacity purchase agreements with major airlines
- Are not in bankruptcy
- Excluding Eagle
- Note: Individual carriers subject to the control of a holding corporation shall be aggregated for purposes of the measurement (e.g., “Skywest” includes Skywest, ASA, and Express Jet)
o Measurement: Determine the average pilot longevity for the selected carriers (for First Officers and Captains) and calculate the cost advantage or disadvantage relative to Eagle. If there are two, three, or four carriers meeting the above criteria, select the two carriers with the largest longevity gap relative to Eaglea and take the simple average of those gaps to determine the Eagle longevity target. If there are five or more carriers meeting the above criteria, select the three carriers with the largest longevity gap relative to Eagle and take the simple average of those gaps to determine the Eagle longevity target. If there is only a single carrier meeting the criteria, that carrier’s gap relative to Eagle becomes the target
o Process: Longevity data may be gathered from various sources provided that
o Benchmark group: a subset of large regional carriers that meet the following criteria:
- Operate 150 aircraft or more with at least 44 seats
- Operate within the contiguous forty-eight (48) states of the United States
- Majority of aircraft are operated under capacity purchase agreements with major airlines
- Are not in bankruptcy
- Excluding Eagle
- Note: Individual carriers subject to the control of a holding corporation shall be aggregated for purposes of the measurement (e.g., “Skywest” includes Skywest, ASA, and Express Jet)
o Measurement: Determine the average pilot longevity for the selected carriers (for First Officers and Captains) and calculate the cost advantage or disadvantage relative to Eagle. If there are two, three, or four carriers meeting the above criteria, select the two carriers with the largest longevity gap relative to Eaglea and take the simple average of those gaps to determine the Eagle longevity target. If there are five or more carriers meeting the above criteria, select the three carriers with the largest longevity gap relative to Eagle and take the simple average of those gaps to determine the Eagle longevity target. If there is only a single carrier meeting the criteria, that carrier’s gap relative to Eagle becomes the target
o Process: Longevity data may be gathered from various sources provided that
10-23-2011 | 12:51 PM
#56
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The only fearmongers are the ones selling you this bill of goods attached to tales of doom and gloom, if you don't buy it. If former Comair pilots were in your class, you're obviously a newbie.
Clearly, you're already ready to roll over. I hope the majority there aren't as far gone as you are.
Clearly, you're already ready to roll over. I hope the majority there aren't as far gone as you are.
10-24-2011 | 05:50 AM
#57
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: FO
What are the airlines to be used in the longevity comparison? Skywest, Republic, Pinnacle, etc. Eagle has been hiring considerably more pilots recently, and if senior CAs start going to AA then the longevity disparity should shrink quite a bit.
Also if Eagle is among the highest-paid in terms of payscale then it's not reasonable to assume we can negotiate a pay raise when the contract expires anyway. We may argue for a raise, and management will use our competitors to show we are overpaid and then we will settle in between.
I am not for or against the TA at this point until all the merits are evaluated against what we can get otherwise. It's easy for someone to get on here and pontificate to us all the negatives of this TA based on some of the language, but practically-speaking what is in our overall best interest?
Also if Eagle is among the highest-paid in terms of payscale then it's not reasonable to assume we can negotiate a pay raise when the contract expires anyway. We may argue for a raise, and management will use our competitors to show we are overpaid and then we will settle in between.
I am not for or against the TA at this point until all the merits are evaluated against what we can get otherwise. It's easy for someone to get on here and pontificate to us all the negatives of this TA based on some of the language, but practically-speaking what is in our overall best interest?
10-24-2011 | 06:15 AM
#58
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 338
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From: 737 FO
I think a lot of people are going to be surprised how many "senior" AE Pilots DON'T choose to flow through. While I question that choice long term, it IS their choice. Given that, I'm afraid that AE is going to be a rather "senior" and rather "junior" company with not much in the middle. It may still work out, but I suspect AMR has a pretty good idea how...
Every AE pilot will need to read the final contract language to make up their own minds. I hope that they take a look at it based on 1) What's good for they and their families; 2) what's good for the AE pilots who stay long term; and 3) what's good for the profession. We do have a responsibility to leave this "career" better than we found it.
Every AE pilot will need to read the final contract language to make up their own minds. I hope that they take a look at it based on 1) What's good for they and their families; 2) what's good for the AE pilots who stay long term; and 3) what's good for the profession. We do have a responsibility to leave this "career" better than we found it.
10-24-2011 | 06:36 AM
#59
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From: Thrill Seat
10-24-2011 | 11:48 AM
#60
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Joined: Feb 2011
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9/11 type thing happens im gone anyway, however this TA isnt passed and we get option A, I will be gone anyway, and it will just be the senior guys left. Option A IS a COMAIR FUTURE. Option B is a more Compass type path.
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