No, I'm not. ALPA legal does specialize in airline cases, however AOPA does offer specialized legal services for commercial and ATP rated pilots. I don't see much of a drop-off in quality there. Not enough to justify garnishing my wages by 2% and screwing up management-employee relations at SKW. Besides, if you use the ASAP program like it is designed this isn't even an issue. You inadvertantly break company policy or a regulation then fill out an ASAP form. Company can't terminate you and the Feds can't take your license. Worst case is you spend a few unpaid weeks at home and complete some sort of training.

As for the medical services I absolutely believe that AOPA offers the same level of service that ALPA does. Most likely better. AOPA's membership is how many times larger than ALPA? I bet the AOPA membership is also statistically older and more medically unfit than the ALPA membership. I don't have any hard stats to throw at you comparing how many medical issues AOPA deals with compared to ALPA, but common sense tells you that AOPA has more experience in this department.

 

Just a Mushroom,

Thanks for the insight.

My thoughts are as follows...

Management pilots are picked by the company at ALPA carriers too I thought? You being CA have obviously been in the industry a few years longer, but I am pretty sure at Trans States chief pilots were chosen by the company. When I started with Trans States, I was in their office as I was looking for a former boss of mine when I was an intern. I asked one of the asst. chiefs, "will I have a job in a year?" jokingly as we all know the way the industry is. The management pilot replied, "you can go to GeJet, they are hiring, two year upgrade." And the best part is, he was serious! A year later after discussing some options with management pilots AFTER I left Trans States and went corporate, I didn't like the corporate job and I asked this person's opinion on going back to the airlines. Same group of management pilots, different person, but actually said that GoJet would be a wise option since I wouldn't have to commute!!!

Any management pilot is USUALLY pro-company! Hence, why else are they in management!


Being a new hire and having no experience with management at SkyWest, especially as a captain, makes it difficult to see things in a different light. It was the same way where I was in the sense that the CA is held responsible for everything as well. The only difference is, because of the pilot/management relationship, guys were fired before being brought in to be heard and had to do the grievance process through ALPA. They were rewarded their jobs back and Trans States had the nerve to NOT let the guys back on property!!! So I think they are in court again as I was leaving when this was going on.

Again, I wasn't around for the 900 pay deal and yes, the no 700/900 pay scale sucks. But, I have heard and only seen good things about SkyWest COMPARED to other places and my own experiences. It appears as if everyone is happy here, and if it will in fact make management upset, why fight that? They ULTIMATELY AND UNFORTUNATELY are the ones who have the upper hand until it comes to a strike! I personally don't think it is worth ruining whatever relationship we have.

You mentioned that management has to consult the pilot group first. They consulted the guys at Trans States with a worse contract than the one we had and it was voted down by the pilots, just as management assumed it would be. Then, guess where the GoJet flying went? Management is still laughing about it and guess who is the VP of Fight Ops at GoJet? The former VP of Flight Ops at Trans States. Point being, management pilots are probably pro-management, more so that pro-pilot.

I just think that no matter what, management is probably going to have the upper hand in most cases. If we can at least sit down and discuss things with them without it being in a hostile environment, that is worth it to me to not have whatever protection ALPA claims to bring in.

Thanks for your thoughts and I hope you don't take anything of my comments of yours personal! Just trying to figure out what is best for my career at SkyWest. Again, I haven't been around long enough to see if all of the stuff they put on in ground school is just a show or if it is for real! Thanks!

 

It is unfortunant SW managment has taken the attitude of confrontation.

Why is mangemtn threatend by pilots having a voice? Is it because they like being unaccountable (except the stockholders). Unions have been a voice of reason and improvment in hundreds of industries, including airlines and the dozen or so that have been greedy and messed things up are the examples people refer to. TSA/Gojets/Freedom...yes, their lot in life sux. HOW BAD WOULD IT BE WITHOUT A UNION THERE?

Managment always threatens by saying "were going to make your life hell if you vote union"...ask yourself why? Why do they want you to be powerless.

If they could do away with federal laws about hours/duty/experience/wx/mx/age...don't you think they would? Its only because the people have a voice/vote that keeps them from doing so.

Representation does not need to mean advisary. Southwest/Frontier work with their union groups. The pilots at SW who want a union don't want to ruin the place. We want to make it BETTER. Thats the point. Management can't keep making hundreds of thousands a year + bonus + options (AND THEY DO MAKE THAT) on the backs of workers at a company making record profits without giving a raise in 5+years to the labor group most resposible for the success.

 

Yeah why are they so worried? Good point.
I would have to see a serious pay increase, including our cost of living for the past 5 years. 5x3.5=17.5% being conservative, to keep a union out.

 

[QUOTE=bla bla bla;66996]Is alpa the answer? For what we do, we are under payed. Period. I can drive truck and make more. So will alpa solve our probblems? past history says no. But we are powerless without a union. QUOTE]


1) Then go drive a truck. This is a free country. As Goose said on Top Gun . . . "What's the name of that truck driving school I saw on t.v. last night?"

2) I AGREE YOU, ALPA will not solve problems. Have you ever read all their propaganda Bull******. They talk to their "clients" (pilots) like they are a bunch of crying little babies and they are "God's messenger" YUCK!

3) Let's watch how ALPA handles MESABA . . . then ASA. If ALPA is SO GOOD, then all these pilots should walk away BETTER OFF, than they are now. I don't think that will happen. So, if ALPA says strike (and the pilots do) and the company decides to close shop, will ALPA give these pilots NEW jobs at their current SENIORITY RANK? I will bet all the marbles in the world they won't. In fact, I bet ALPA will disappear for these pilots . . .

 

Don't forget to subtract your Union dues?

Less your union dues (5 years) x 2% = 10% . . . So conservatively you are only getting 7.5%. Using your logic. So to get your 17.5% less union dues the company will have to pay you 27.5% more over 5 years. Might as well close shop, it's cheaper.

If unions are so great why isn't Wal-Mart unionized? If unions are so great why are UAW union memers getting laid oof at GM, Ford, et el? There are many scholarly articles on unionization. The reason many unions WANT you to join is to help pay for union officer's salaries. . . YOU WORK, Then YOU PAY someone to tell you that you are getting a raw deal (read Dear Abby it's cheaper), then the UNION LEADERSHIP doesn't get their way with the comp[any, so they organize a strike, YOU STRIKE, the company goes out of business, and YOU LOSE YOUR JOB . . . It's nice to pay someone 2% a year to lose your job for you. . . Yeah, I guess that sounds fair.

 

Wal-mart, i thought they payed so bad that some citys would not allow them to build in there city unless they payed more?

Close shop? Hey 200+ million last quarter, it may take a few years.

Great if you are in the other side of the fence. Hey I would not want a union to if I was running a company.

 

Sorry to say, ELLEN has it right! Why union??? I still don't understand??? ALPA is NOT the answer, in my humble opinion.

WHO SAYS THAT THE SKYWEST PILOTS CAN'T STRIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE CAN SHUT DOWN THE AIRLINE FOR TWO MONTHS WHILE THEY WAIT TO HIRE OTHER PEOPLE WITH CRJ EXPERIENCE FROM GOJET!!!! THEY WILL SAVE MONEY IN THE LONG RUN BECAUSE THEY ARE HIRING PEOPLE WHO WORK 15$ AN HOUR.

I am curious as to where it says in the SkyWest manual that the pilots can't "call in sick" or whatever to pose a "strike"!!!! This is America!!!

 

As an outsider, the problem I see is this may be like having your ex say "we can both use my attorney for the divorce, don't worry he will treat you fairly".

Exactly how is ALPA going to best represent the SW pilot group for seniority integration, please look at other airlines starting with Flying Tigers to AA/TWA, to see just how ugly this gets.

The best contract I've seen for a similiarly sized airline (a little outside the box) is Net Jets. My point is competition is good, even for unions, they need to be forced to compete for your 2%, and once they get it they need to continue to earn it.

My biggest complaint with ALPA is that for years they have not paid real attention to the regionals, and now that is where much of the mainline narrowbody flying is at half the pay rates. And don't just accept the "union is you" response, look at Delta vs. ComAir vs. ASA, it's all ALPA. I'm not smart enough to know what the fix is, but I don't think ALPA has figured it out either, and a little competition and embarassment might bring some focus to this area of the industry.

I will go back to my orginal point exactly how are you going to be best represented?

 

Great point!!!

ALPA represents Delta, Comair, ASA and what do they care where the flying goes? Whose best interest is ALPA'S????? Is there any conflict of interest here???

ALPA'S!!!!!

Actually, Duane is cashing in and selling us all out... the politician!!!

He actually forgot he was a pilot at one point!!

I would love to sit with Duane for a day! Duane, I am calling you out!