Walmart is not unionized because management keeps it that way, they have about 10 J.O.'s working for them, and incidentally they are one the worse companies to work for at entry through middle levels.

You think you could bargain better without a union? You think you could take on the Orsteins and the Hoolas of the industry on your own? Their only goal is to maximize profits by cutting as much cost as possible...pilots are nothing but cost to them, aircraft parts are nothing but cost to them, I could go on for hours, but at the end you will still think you could work without ALPA. Good thing you don't work in the industry!

 

My thoughts exactly on the discounts and representation.

 

How would alpa screw up what we already have? I was under the impression that if they are voted in, our current arrangement is locked in? How does all this work?

 

That I don't know. I just know that the majority of ALPA carriers don't have a good relationship with their pilots. However, it seems that some guys at SkyWest aren't happy with the current policies. I don't know if things are as good as I have heard about SkyWest as I have yet to get a good amount of opinions on line.

I did hear that it would take years for a NEW contract provided by ALPA????

 

It would only take "years" if Jerry and Co. dragged negotiations out that long.

 

Contracts are important, but the true value of a union is in your job protection. Airlines and their managers cannot fire people on a whim and get away with it. Everyone that ASA has fired (with the exception of one who deserved it), has gotten their jobs back. That alone is worth 2% of my income. It is like insurance. You do not want to pay for it and do not realize you do not have the correct coverage until it is too late. By that time you are stuck with the coverage you have. The say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound a cure is quite true with unions.
Not everything that a union does is correct, but the collective whole is better than any negative that comes out of them. I challenge you to research all of ALPA's different committees and then make your judgement. Their aeromedical, legal, and safety to name a few are some of the best in the world. Why would the NTSB ask ALPA to work of a crash investigation if they did not know what they were doing?

 

Bla-bla and KoolAid:

...to the extent this explanation is intended to discourage pilots from
supporting ALPA because they are fearful the Company will retaliate in the manner described, its dissemination is illegal.
As indicated in the answer, most Courts have held that there is no enforceable status quo obligation until a first agreement
is negotiated. However, that does not mean “it would be well within SkyWest’s rights to freeze pay scales and all pay step
increases until the first contract has been negotiated.” This position was conclusively rejected the DC Circuit in Atlas Air
Inc. v. Air Line Pilots Association where the Court held as follows:

While we may continue to recognize that the employer may alter status quo working conditions, so long as no collective bargaining agreement exists between the parties, where the challenged modification to
the status quo is far from merely formal, and is in fact the equivalent of a substantial decrease in compensation having a real and material impact on the conditions of employment, and is justified on no other
grounds than union certification, we may presume that the carrier’s actions were motivated by anti union animus and are in violation of RLA, Section 2, Third and Fourth. To hold otherwise would allow a carrier without legal consequence, to slash to subsistence levels the wages of those
employees who elect to unionize. 232 F2d at 226

SkyWest pilots can rest assured that in the event we are certified, any actions along the lines described in the above Q and A will be with consequence as was the case at Atlas.

 

And for those who want us to "go drive a truck"...or just quit..or that kind of nonsense...

That's teh point of organizing. We are not bankers or truck drives. We can't leave a company everytime we disagree because when we do it is not a lateral move. We go to the bottom. It works for us and against us.

Voting for a union at SkyWest is NOT voting to stick it to Jerry. We like Jerry. We ARE happy. Voting for a union is our way of saying "we are not going to fly 737s for CRJ200 rates. We are not going to flow thru ATL if ASA strikes. This is too important to not have a voice in the process. We are making SkWest Incorp. millions each quarter without a voice and I say we have earned a right to be heard.

"being heard" means-helping choose our chief pilots (did you know the Chief pilots got thousand in raises in 2005-06), protection from unwarrented management disipline (and it is rampant at SkyWest), negotiate a living wage (Holt won't even talk about pay raises...but he will as the vote gets closer), enforce/create safty measures..(how many SW pilots have flown 4 legs w/o a break only to hear a gate agent/ramper/CS bark..."hurry its a quick turn". ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? A RAMPER BARKING ORDER TO A CA? BUT HOLT ALLOWS IT!)

 

First, regarding a ramper barking orders, . . stand up for yourself. If you need HOLT to do it for you, then you don't deserve the pay you are getting as a CA.

Now to more serious things.

Maybe ALPA should develop a WHOLE NEW SYSTEM of performance evaluation for pilots. Implement it NATIONALLY. A 15 year Part 121 CA should get 15 year Part 121 pay at ALL Airlines. Even if he transfers to another airline right? Why doesn't ALPA work on that????
That's where the challenge lies. ALPA can't even make it happen.

If Jerry Atkins quit SKYW today and went to work for another airline, would he get paid $19.02/hr.? Why or Why not? He wouldn't, too much experience. Worth way more than $19.02/hr. But because the way the SENORITY system works in airlines (Pilots are commodities) each will always go to the bottom of the list. So . . . . .

ALPA should be focusing their efforts on a FAIR compensation for SKILL LEVEL across ALL AIRLINES. The seniority list becomes a non-factor and the ABILITY/SKILL-SET factor becomes the goal. This is the way the rest of the world works. So, if a seven year CA leaves SKYW to work as an FO for SWA (he/she) should get seven year pay scale. (Totally unrealistic I know). The problem is, that even ALPA can't make this happen (Evaluating pilots on SKILL/ABILITY-the agrument for their existence) so they employ unsubstantiated scare tactics that appeal to the lowest common denominator, in order to justify their place. Higher Pay and Job security. What else do they have to fall back on? (I'm not sure)

Maybe the right to strike? But even that can't happen. Just look at what the courts are saying in regard to the NWA Flight attendants, MESABA pilots, and COMAIR pilots. Even ALPA can't get it's own pilots to strike because the Government steps in. WHY? Because the airlines represent a major fiscal percentage to the US economy.

So what again are the reasons for ALPA. 1) Job Security and 2) Higher Pay. Seems to me that any logical person, working ANY job, skilled or unskilled, would want those two things. Sooooo . . . . . if that's that case, than OUR WHOLE country should be UNIONIZED. So why is it not? Because it's a free market. If SKYW pilots decided to stop flying today because of pay (Don't need ALPA to do this) I'm sure that management would take a quick ear to the pilot group. There would also be all sorts of cost reductions, eliminated routes, delayed maintenance, etc . . . .

As long as there are pilots willing to work on the cheap, low pay will continue. However, some things are slowly changing at SKYW due to the free market economy.

1) I believe SKYW DID NOT pay you while in training: NOW THEY DO
2) SKYW didn't buy new hires uniforms: NOW THEY DO
3) SKYW didn't offer flight attendants an $800 bonus for sticking around after they were hired and went through training: NOW THEY DO
4) SKYW never had Low Hiring Minimums: NOW THEY DO
5) SKYW never had a comprehensive retirement and benefits package: NOW THEY DO

I am sure there are many more, but these are just some of the things that indicate to me that there is a quality EMPLOYEE shortage. WHY? People are less interested in working in the aviation field because greater opportunities exist elsewhere or at other airlines. Eventually, in order for airlines to exist, they will have to pay more to lure future participants to select an aviation career.

I encourage you all to watch the MESABA outcome, ASA outcome, and COMAIR outcome, then decide if having a union is really worth it.

I hear everyone talking about which airline should they work for, based on Lowest minimums, type of aircraft, bases, schedules, pay, friends working there, etc . . . . but no one ever talks about the financial stability of the companies they are going to work for. WHY?

If I were in your shoes I would spend more time evaluating WHAT company one should go to work for based on: FINANCIALS (Income, balance sheet, cash flow), BUSINESS PLAN, GROWTH (Past, current and future), TRACK RECORD OF MANAGEMENT, ON-GOING STRATEGY/TACTICS, EMPLOYEE MORAL, etc.

I feel if ALL of you did this, only a few airlines would be worthy of sending an application to. The weaker airlines, COMAIR, MESABA, and ASA included (ALPA represented) would have to change or go out of business due to market forces.

By (YOU) taking responsibility for YOUR FUTURE, you will be the most happy in whatever EDUCATED choices you make. Even if you think you screwed up a choice/decision, you have the ability to fix it. This way YOU are in charge of your life, NOT your employer.

 

Oh great, Ellens back repeating the same posts in every thread... What did we ever do without her Im starting to think Ellen=Duane Woerth?