So you're suggesting a B scale for the 319s will come about? With just worse pay? Or worse work rules, 401k, etc? I would hope that all pilots would push back against such nonsense. But with the seemingly diminished capacity of ALPA, anything seems possible.

 

Oh PLEASE may I get to fly a plane with four times the pax of a Saab for a ten percent pay increase???? I mean, it is so shiny.... and that auto-fly-by-wire-push-button-side-stick flying is so cool!!!

If only there was a place I could pay say $30,000 to get 200 hours on it then I could go anywhere and make a zillion dollars flying four legs per month with hot Pan Am type Stewardesses.

Dude! I got it all figured out!

 

Johnso,
First of all, this is not an attack (your posts are level headed and not inflamatory), but just my opinions as to why mgmt will fight tooth and nail to keep flying seperated.
1. We tend to forget that the real culprit is the DOT changing the rules back in the early 80's (all part of the rush to deregulate and let the market rule) that allowed Joe's airline to fly for Bob's airline using Bob's name and paint. This amazing gift to airline mgmt., allowing them to move flying from one airline to another while still presenting themselves to the public as one seamless operator, started all this. Beware theorists bearing gifts of less regulatory intrusion.
2. While possibly originally meant to be a de-regulatory gift to certain commuter airlines,
( a regional airline then was Ozark, North Central, etc), as we now know, it proved to be a great deal for trunk airlines to put the screws to their employees. Southern airlines used to fly MetroLiners. Ozark, F-27's, Noth Central CV-580's, etc. It didn't take long for all Turbo prop flying at long established 121 carriers to disappear. Step 1.
3.All the long established regional airlines, operating DC-9's and such, were absorbed by a "legacy". The only exception was Allegheny who merged/grew themselves into a main line legacy, but while still outsourcing any small aircraft flying.
4. The arrival of the CRJ. No longer was the outsourced feed restricted to roughly a 300 mile leg. Also, Bob's airline could do hub raiding. Non-stop service to medium size point to point markets. Great idea. Except Tom, Dick, and Harry all came up with the same thought, much to ATC's dismay. Now even more RJ's, soon to be rolled back into hub feed as fuel went up.
5. ALPA chose to represent both regional pilots and mainline pilots leading to a situation which a growth oriented contract at a regional hurts the careers of a mainline pilot and a regional growth (scope) restricting contract at the major hurts the career of the regional pilot. An obvious paradox that ALPA hasn't yet figured out an answer for.
(please, for all those that will immediately shout that it isn't a harm to the regional pilot as it will open up more mainline jobs, it would take me too long, but the School of Chicago economic theories can't work for most, and they wouldn't work for a large number of the RJ guys and gals)
6.The majors started signing up multiple Regional partners. JACKPOT!
They just checkmated ALPA's (and labor unions in general) strategy of pattern bargaining. Any regional that makes any significant gains in compensation (pay, work rules, whatever) will eventually lose their flying to someone else. Ask any ComAir pilot.
(as an aside, they did, and are doing, the same thing with small station ops. First they replaced all the long time mainline agents with regional X. Now they just give the ground handling contract to a different regional every 5 years or so. Longevity, vacation, sick leave all back to zero. Oh yeah, 6 month wait for health insurance. The shareholders and Wall Street are well pleased).
So,(if you are still reading), Delta, or anyone else, isn't about to give any flying back to one pilot group unless they have a gun to their head. As it stands now they can always shift any small aircraft flying to a different operator who will do it for less. If they give it all to mainline, they lose that power.
I have some thoughts as to some things "we" can do to fight back, but they are radical, would take legislation that is unlikely in our conservative leaning society, and would require great unity amongst ALL airline pilots. Won't happen soon.
I've already been too long winded, maybe that's another post on another day.

 

So to summarize, we are basically screwed anyway you slice the cheese unless drastic and unified changes occur; which will not because of the battle cry of aviation is and will always be "it's all about me"?

 

When you say "the DOT changed the rules back in the early 80's", are you actually talking about deregulation which happened in 1978?

 

Agreed...that's at least half of it

 

Paid,
No, but I would assume that the loosening of regulatory oversight was all part of the changing philosophy of the country at large. Deregulation wouldn't have happened without it, and neither would the new rules, or more accurately, the lack thereof.
Prior to this time the FAA would not allow a company to present themselves to the traveling public as a different carrier. Joe couldn't pretend to be Bob.It reflected the wishes of the executive branch to reduce the regulatory burden on corporations to allow such a change.
It was once thought of as part of the governments job to protect the public from such dishonest practices.No more. This has been a profound change, just in my working life time, as to what the govt responsiblities to the public and to workers is. In industry after industry (not just aviation) the agencies who were set up to oversee a particular segment of the economy/society have become advocates for that industry, or at least the few biggest players in said industry. You see the results in your paycheck, in what health insurance costs, and how insecure your job is. The only reason that we as pilots haven't suffered as much as society at large is that we have specialized skills that take a little more ingenuity to replace. But even with those advantages, our position has suffered greatly.
With that bit of good cheer, may you and any other reader have a very Happy New Year.(we could all use one!)

 

Well said, Max Q. There might just be hope yet, with guys like you in the industry. Here's hoping that more make themselves known to the powers that be. Happy New Year.

 

If you could find a place to get 200 hours for 30 grand and then go make a zillion dollars I'd say thats a good return on investment. The pan annies would just be a bonus.

 

It's that sort of logic that kept a certain south Florida based Beech operator supplied with dripping wet Commercial pilots willing to buy a "job".