ASA PBS in danger of worse system.
02-21-2012 | 02:26 PM
#71
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From: crj-200 FO
I am a line holder and I think it's nice that a more jr guy that is normally on res can get a line on their vacation month and maximize that vacation time off. The QOL argument to that is flawed because the more senior pilots bid goes in 1st the jr guy is just making with the left overs. So instead of putting the jr guy on res on a vacation month and put the left over trip into open time, it gives it to the jr guy. If the senior guy wants more flying they just have to add it in their bid sheet.
02-21-2012 | 02:28 PM
#72
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True, but like other guys that are educating themselves, I like the XJT contract better than the ASA one. There's only 1 or 2 things in the ASA that I like better than the XJT one. Again, feel free to dispute it. There's a guy that's made MULTIPLE offers to do a side by side comparison for the purpose of educating folks. I have yet to see ANY ASA person take him up on the offer.
02-21-2012 | 03:12 PM
#74
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I am a line holder and I think it's nice that a more jr guy that is normally on res can get a line on their vacation month and maximize that vacation time off. The QOL argument to that is flawed because the more senior pilots bid goes in 1st the jr guy is just making with the left overs.
Wow, brilliant debate tactic. First off, you used it in the context that XJT would get sold off due to not being able to reach and agreement. And my response was who is going to buy them? As in, who in this environment is going to buy them? Pinnacle, MESA, some legacy? Seriously, who would buy them?
Second, and it's been beat to death OVER, and OVER, and OVER again. ASA DIDN'T buy XJT, SkyWest bought XJT. Even most ASA guys can accept the fact that that's what happened.
02-21-2012 | 03:26 PM
#76
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From: crj-200 FO
"Unfortunately, your scope of the QOL argument is VERY limited. I'm talking big picture, as in the WHOLE CBA. "
I'm trying to stick with the subjects associated with PBS, so QOL issues directly revolved with PBS. Though yes we did go off topic a few times. I cannot debate over the whole contract because I dont know it well enough. But our joint MECs are supposed to negotiating that was we speak.
"Wow, brilliant debate tactic. First off, you used it in the context that XJT would get sold off due to not being able to reach and agreement. And my response was who is going to buy them? As in, who in this environment is going to buy them? Pinnacle, MESA, some legacy? Seriously, who would buy them?"
If I worded it poorly then it was my error but I was referring to you guys before you were sold off. Questions that some would ask is did they sign it to just sell you off? Pinnacle signed theirs and months later they are now asking for concessions and are in bankruptcy. Are these signings all just dirty tactics?
I'm trying to stick with the subjects associated with PBS, so QOL issues directly revolved with PBS. Though yes we did go off topic a few times. I cannot debate over the whole contract because I dont know it well enough. But our joint MECs are supposed to negotiating that was we speak.
"Wow, brilliant debate tactic. First off, you used it in the context that XJT would get sold off due to not being able to reach and agreement. And my response was who is going to buy them? As in, who in this environment is going to buy them? Pinnacle, MESA, some legacy? Seriously, who would buy them?"
If I worded it poorly then it was my error but I was referring to you guys before you were sold off. Questions that some would ask is did they sign it to just sell you off? Pinnacle signed theirs and months later they are now asking for concessions and are in bankruptcy. Are these signings all just dirty tactics?
Last edited by USMC3197; 02-21-2012 at 03:39 PM.
02-21-2012 | 04:09 PM
#77
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You don't know much about the line bid work rules at XJT, as evidenced by one of your posts.
You don't know the difference between a system limitation vs. a work rule limitation, as evidenced by a post of yours.
You aren't that aware of what ACTUALLY want down on the buyout, as evidenced by a post of yours.
You seem to think that XJt could get sold off due to failure to reach an agreement, as evidenced by a post of yours. You DO know that SOC status has been achieved, right? Meaning they can't just auction off the ERJ side wholesale, to whomever would want to buy it. Never mind the FACT that Jerry would have to clear it with mamma CALNITED since they lease the airplanes, THEN sublease to SkyWest holdings.
I'm trying to stick with the subjects associated with PBS, so QOL issues directly revolved with PBS. Though yes we did go off topic a few times. I cannot debate over the whole contract because I dont know it well enough. But our joint MECs are supposed to negotiating that was we speak.
When you refer to signings, what EXACTLY are you referring to? Contract 04 was signed in an ENTIRELY different time/landscape. It was done under a "cost+10%" arrangement that dates back to the COEX/IPO sell off that was driven by a pump and dump wall street move. Concession 08 (LOA 9) was supposed to bring "XJT back to profitability" although it was a "cost neutral" CPA. As well as the FACT that those operating rates were based more on what Jerry told CAL that XJT could be operated under, NOT what they were ACTUALLY operating at.
02-21-2012 | 07:50 PM
#78
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From: EMB 145 CPT
Line building can only do that if company builds lines that workout perfectly. ASA PBS system lets ALL pilots senior AND jr do that. But that is just one example of our PBS system. Over all the system is good but I admit we can use some improvement. Not so much in the PBS program but in what company can and can't do. To be fair an example is flying extra on a vacation month. If we are awarded below guarantee and pick up stuff it's not added on top like you guys. Which I think is BS and why we don't pick up open time on vacation months. It's not a perfect system but for now with all the options out there currently in use, I think our system is one of the better ones. I tell xjet pilots that ask me about it in ORD to not judge and just wait till it goes on the roadshow and see for yourself. Hear what we pilots currently using have to say and look at it. Hear the flaws hear the good and test it. I was against it at 1st but it ended up creating more lines. Also after the roadshow see how it works out when you guy run a few months bidding PBS along with line bidding. That is when most of us saw the difference. If we are lucky the new ASA XJET MEC will get many of the flaws out by then. I will say if it goes to arbitration I think we ALL will lose and company will win. Lately it seems like it always goes their way in arbitration. So if company really wants it we may not be able to stop it. And like I said, it's not that bad. For us it was better. Many senior guys hate it due to crappy pairings. Our PBS system doesnt create parings. It's a bad misunderstanding in our part and it leads to misguided options about our PBS. I agree our pairings sometimes... many times stink and it seems like company and ALPA is working on that. Our system can only build trips with pairings that COMPANY dumps into it. Blah blah blah..... Again, if you read all this just wait till roadshow and ask questions, dont assume.
Also, and very important for some of the ASA guys that keep saying this, THERE IS NO ARBITRATION REQUIREMENT FOR A JCBA!
02-21-2012 | 08:12 PM
#79
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Never mind the point you made elsewhere, that SkyWest management said PBS is a concession.
02-23-2012 | 03:15 AM
#80
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401k
1yr - 20% of the first 6%
2yr - 30% of the first 6%
3yr - 40% of the first 6%
4-6yrs - 50% of the first 6 %
7-10yrs - 75% of the first 6%
10+ - 75% of the first 8%
We have the option of a ROTH 401k or regular as well as a self directed brokerage acct where you can buy several funds/ETF's not offered on the regular JP Morgan acct.
Red Arrow Days
Red arrow days are never mentioned in the contract. They were dreamed up by the company after the contract to signify when a day was 'below reserve staffing'. Unfortunately there is no staffing formula so the company abused it and basically made almost every day red arrow. The union supposedly grieved it, however there has been no outcome to date. The red arrows have now mysteriously disappeared but the day can still come back as below staffing.
I'll do the rest when I get more time.
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