Strait Pay
11-01-2006, 12:31 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Again it is important to compare apples to apples. Most regional airline jobs are located in urban areas. The government website has some numbers that are misleading. It takes into consideration every firefighter and police job both rural and city. In my small town 100 miles from Seattle civil servants earn perhaps half of what their urban counterparts make.
Here is a starting wage for Montclair California police job.
$4,451 - $5,410
($4,239/mo. salary while enrolled in the 20-week Police Academy)
City Pays 9% of Employees' Portion of 3% at 55 PERS Contribution
Here is firefighter pay off the city of Los Angeles web Site:
Starting salary $46,729 - $64,686
BENEFITS
Thirteen paid holidays per year.
Sixteen days paid vacation to start.
Family health and dental coverage.
Pension plan
In addition I had a conversation about an hour ago with a plumber at one of my job sites. He told me that after three years as an apprentice a fully licensed plumber earns 50-60K in residential and 60-70K commercial as a Non-union employee. In addition they have the ability to start their own company and earn much more.
In any case it sure beats four years in college to be followed by years of slave wages before finally reaching plumber wages in your mid-30's
SkyHigh
Here is a starting wage for Montclair California police job.
$4,451 - $5,410
($4,239/mo. salary while enrolled in the 20-week Police Academy)
City Pays 9% of Employees' Portion of 3% at 55 PERS Contribution
Here is firefighter pay off the city of Los Angeles web Site:
Starting salary $46,729 - $64,686
BENEFITS
Thirteen paid holidays per year.
Sixteen days paid vacation to start.
Family health and dental coverage.
Pension plan
In addition I had a conversation about an hour ago with a plumber at one of my job sites. He told me that after three years as an apprentice a fully licensed plumber earns 50-60K in residential and 60-70K commercial as a Non-union employee. In addition they have the ability to start their own company and earn much more.
In any case it sure beats four years in college to be followed by years of slave wages before finally reaching plumber wages in your mid-30's
SkyHigh
The only true, fair, gauge of who earns what is by the Country-Wide Average Pay. I am not saying that Pilots make what they should, I feel they are underpaid, however the numbers you have presented are very skewed, a true representation would be by a National Average.
As far as plumbers go, here is what the make on average:
[I]n May 2004, median hourly earnings of plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters were $19.85.
That is about equal to what starting Regional FOs make, however when you become a plumber you must first start off as an apprentice first.
Apprentices make about 50% of that hourly earning, making it around $9.93 an hour. So the start off pay for a Regional FO is better than that of an Apprentice Plumber, and equal to the Average Plumber Wage.
Plumbers may make more in a year, mainly because they work more "paying hours" than a Regional FO would make.
11-01-2006, 12:48 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Soon to be Ex Dash-Trash
Posts: 270
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
Try Medford OR. Dairy Queen is about the most fun you can have for less than a dollar.
Skyhigh
Skyhigh
11-01-2006, 01:45 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Sofa Stress Tester
Posts: 614
Disagree
Originally Posted by T-roy
Since when did the regional airlines become a career choice to begin with? Yeah it's hard to get where I'm at but it's not like it doesn't ever happen. A regional airline has always been and probably will always be a stepping stone, period. Nobody should be thinking about them in any other fashion. So to start some silly comparison to other professions is simply misguided because the regionals shouldn't be end of that profession.
11-01-2006, 02:47 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
The government website has some numbers that are misleading. It takes into consideration every firefighter and police job both rural and city. In my small town 100 miles from Seattle civil servants earn perhaps half of what their urban counterparts make.
Here is a starting wage for Montclair California police job.
$4,451 - $5,410
$4,451 - $5,410
Average* condo price in Montclair = $321,000
Post-tax earnings*:
$3075 - $3624
Here is firefighter pay off the city of Los Angeles web Site:
Starting salary $46,729 - $64,686
Starting salary $46,729 - $64,686
Average* condo price in LA = $495,000
Post-tax earnings*:
$2756 - $3612
In any case it sure beats four years in college to be followed by years of slave wages before finally reaching plumber wages in your mid-30'
Ability to commute from extremely cheap outstation living: priceless
!I fly with captains that are 27-30 years old making $75k+ with 4 years with the company.
Don't get my wrong; I would love to be earning much, much more. This job, provided I don't make it into UPS/FedEx (ha ha, fat chance) will be a stepping stone. I read somewhere you build houses? Would you like to be a mentor??? I've been interested in construction and am doing some background research now. Without going into too much detail my goal is to be doing it as a major source of income in 5 years (when I turn 30).
*Sources:
http://www.dqnews.com/ZIPLAT.shtm
http://www.paycheckcity.com
Last edited by fosters; 11-01-2006 at 02:55 PM.
11-01-2006, 03:21 PM
#45
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
You win!!!
Skyhigh
Congratulations. You have managed to get 44 postings for your new topic.
To those of you who (primarily) troll the Regional threads, Skyhigh has been a regular at beating every ones career choice into the ground. You will note he is seldom seem anymore on the cargo and major threads, everyone there has heard the same tripe you are responding to. You'll catch on soon and learn to ignore him.
Than..............
"Now we will return to our previous scheduled programing............."
Congratulations. You have managed to get 44 postings for your new topic.
To those of you who (primarily) troll the Regional threads, Skyhigh has been a regular at beating every ones career choice into the ground. You will note he is seldom seem anymore on the cargo and major threads, everyone there has heard the same tripe you are responding to. You'll catch on soon and learn to ignore him.
Than..............
"Now we will return to our previous scheduled programing............."
11-01-2006, 03:41 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Originally Posted by dckozak
Skyhigh
Congratulations. You have managed to get 44 postings for your new topic.
To those of you who (primarily) troll the Regional threads, Skyhigh has been a regular at beating every ones career choice into the ground. You will note he is seldom seem anymore on the cargo and major threads, everyone there has heard the same tripe you are responding to. You'll catch on soon and learn to ignore him.
Than..............
"Now we will return to our previous scheduled programing............."
Congratulations. You have managed to get 44 postings for your new topic.
To those of you who (primarily) troll the Regional threads, Skyhigh has been a regular at beating every ones career choice into the ground. You will note he is seldom seem anymore on the cargo and major threads, everyone there has heard the same tripe you are responding to. You'll catch on soon and learn to ignore him.
Than..............
"Now we will return to our previous scheduled programing............."
Skyhigh, how much $$ do you earn now that you have left horizon (serious question). I would bet he earns considerably more then most of us do and has seen what a better life he is able to give his family by doing so - he's just trying to educate us!
11-02-2006, 07:38 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: rj 700/900
Posts: 506
Originally Posted by NE_Pilot
We are comparing Apples to Apples. The Country-Wide Average pay for each profession. You can pick and choose which Department and which Airline, and which city till the cows come home, but in the end, by doing that you are skewing the numbers to either side.
The only true, fair, gauge of who earns what is by the Country-Wide Average Pay. I am not saying that Pilots make what they should, I feel they are underpaid, however the numbers you have presented are very skewed, a true representation would be by a National Average.
As far as plumbers go, here is what the make on average:
[I]n May 2004, median hourly earnings of plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters were $19.85.
That is about equal to what starting Regional FOs make, however when you become a plumber you must first start off as an apprentice first.
Apprentices make about 50% of that hourly earning, making it around $9.93 an hour. So the start off pay for a Regional FO is better than that of an Apprentice Plumber, and equal to the Average Plumber Wage.
Plumbers may make more in a year, mainly because they work more "paying hours" than a Regional FO would make.
The only true, fair, gauge of who earns what is by the Country-Wide Average Pay. I am not saying that Pilots make what they should, I feel they are underpaid, however the numbers you have presented are very skewed, a true representation would be by a National Average.
As far as plumbers go, here is what the make on average:
[I]n May 2004, median hourly earnings of plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters were $19.85.
That is about equal to what starting Regional FOs make, however when you become a plumber you must first start off as an apprentice first.
Apprentices make about 50% of that hourly earning, making it around $9.93 an hour. So the start off pay for a Regional FO is better than that of an Apprentice Plumber, and equal to the Average Plumber Wage.
Plumbers may make more in a year, mainly because they work more "paying hours" than a Regional FO would make.
11-02-2006, 09:37 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by bla bla bla
My friend, look 19.02 for a regional is flight hours!(door closed/door open). Duty time(report/release) is typically double on a turbo prop than flight time. So for your first year your are at 9 dollars an hour.(think burger king wage's)
Very true. Which makes comparing these types of jobs difficult in the first place. I'm no expert on pay either, just posting what the Department of Labor says. I'm also not trying to justify poor pilot pay, I agree it is too low.
What I am trying to show is that their is no easy job out there that makes lots of money, in a short period of time, and that requires no personal sacrifices. You do not start off at the top, and you dont get to the top without making sacrifices. A career is either for you or it isn't, every career has different sacrifices that are required. Many of these sacrifices we do not see, because we have not done those jobs, just like many people outside of aviation do not know the sacrifices the pilots make. That is why other jobs appear to be that much better.
The real question is, are you willing to make those sacrifices to get to the top?? If you are not, then a different career is for you, one where you are willing to make the sacrifices required to get to the top.
11-02-2006, 01:18 PM
#49
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Get to the top
Originally Posted by NE_Pilot
Very true. Which makes comparing these types of jobs difficult in the first place. I'm no expert on pay either, just posting what the Department of Labor says. I'm also not trying to justify poor pilot pay, I agree it is too low.
What I am trying to show is that their is no easy job out there that makes lots of money, in a short period of time, and that requires no personal sacrifices. You do not start off at the top, and you dont get to the top without making sacrifices. A career is either for you or it isn't, every career has different sacrifices that are required. Many of these sacrifices we do not see, because we have not done those jobs, just like many people outside of aviation do not know the sacrifices the pilots make. That is why other jobs appear to be that much better.
The real question is, are you willing to make those sacrifices to get to the top?? If you are not, then a different career is for you, one where you are willing to make the sacrifices required to get to the top.
What I am trying to show is that their is no easy job out there that makes lots of money, in a short period of time, and that requires no personal sacrifices. You do not start off at the top, and you dont get to the top without making sacrifices. A career is either for you or it isn't, every career has different sacrifices that are required. Many of these sacrifices we do not see, because we have not done those jobs, just like many people outside of aviation do not know the sacrifices the pilots make. That is why other jobs appear to be that much better.
The real question is, are you willing to make those sacrifices to get to the top?? If you are not, then a different career is for you, one where you are willing to make the sacrifices required to get to the top.
SkyHigh
11-02-2006, 01:38 PM
#50
Self Employed.
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Fosters
Fosters,
Again, Apples to Apples, airline pilot jobs are located in the big city and therefore need to be compared to big city jobs. Pilots can commute, so can firefighters. The point is that not everyone can or is willing to burn a few extra un-paid days each month commuting therefore they need the even playing field of big city costs of living as well. Commuting isn't free. Most people need a crash pad, airport car, occasional hotel room and lets not forget the wasted days commuting.
Airline jobs are national in scope therefore wages are somewhat similar nation wide. What might seem acceptable to someone living in Arkansas would be insulting to someone on the west coast. Where I live 100 miles away from the city of Seattle the cheapest starter homes in town are about to top 200K. In a Seattle suburb a similar house is 350-400K. Therefore to a rural Kansas kid who gets hired by SkyWest and is given a southern California base they are in for a huge shock when they start looking for an apartment.
Skyhigh, how much $$ do you earn now that you have left horizon (serious question). I would bet he earns considerably more then most of us do and has seen what a better life he is able to give his family by doing so - he's just trying to educate us!
Thank you for that kind statement. That is exactly right. My goal is to get some of you guys to think outside the box. We all get so involved in selling ourselves false information on aviation it is wise to come up for air and look around once in a while. It is easy to tell ourselves that we are doing alright and overlook how much time and effort we really are spending for what is given in return.
In answer to your question I made more money last year than in all my years as a pilot combined. I was home with my wife and children everyday and I don't even know where my suitcase is anymore. Many of my ex-coworkers have experienced the same epiphany. We get so invested in selling ourselves on sacrifice that it is easy to loose sight on reality. To a starving CFI 30K seems like a fortune.
SKyHigh
Again, Apples to Apples, airline pilot jobs are located in the big city and therefore need to be compared to big city jobs. Pilots can commute, so can firefighters. The point is that not everyone can or is willing to burn a few extra un-paid days each month commuting therefore they need the even playing field of big city costs of living as well. Commuting isn't free. Most people need a crash pad, airport car, occasional hotel room and lets not forget the wasted days commuting.
Airline jobs are national in scope therefore wages are somewhat similar nation wide. What might seem acceptable to someone living in Arkansas would be insulting to someone on the west coast. Where I live 100 miles away from the city of Seattle the cheapest starter homes in town are about to top 200K. In a Seattle suburb a similar house is 350-400K. Therefore to a rural Kansas kid who gets hired by SkyWest and is given a southern California base they are in for a huge shock when they start looking for an apartment.
Skyhigh, how much $$ do you earn now that you have left horizon (serious question). I would bet he earns considerably more then most of us do and has seen what a better life he is able to give his family by doing so - he's just trying to educate us!
Thank you for that kind statement. That is exactly right. My goal is to get some of you guys to think outside the box. We all get so involved in selling ourselves false information on aviation it is wise to come up for air and look around once in a while. It is easy to tell ourselves that we are doing alright and overlook how much time and effort we really are spending for what is given in return.
In answer to your question I made more money last year than in all my years as a pilot combined. I was home with my wife and children everyday and I don't even know where my suitcase is anymore. Many of my ex-coworkers have experienced the same epiphany. We get so invested in selling ourselves on sacrifice that it is easy to loose sight on reality. To a starving CFI 30K seems like a fortune.
SKyHigh
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