I started off with an honest attempt to list the pros and cons of this TA. As I read through the TA, I found myself growing more and more frustrated as all I could come up with is more and more garbage.

I cannot find any reason why a single FO (some CA's would get a raise from the pay banding so I could see how they would be suckered) would vote for this TA as it would amount to thousands of dollars in concessions and a serious backwards step for the entire industry. I have a gut feeling that this TA will pass due to the fear of uncertainty, but just look at the facts:



-PTO only paid at 3 hours/day (this is huge, as you could currently have a 2 day trip with 1 leg the first day and 5 legs the next worth 10 hours and use one vacation day to get paid for the whole thing, whereas with the new TA you would have to use 10 hours of PTO time)

-No IAI adjustments for 2 years(If you are an FO making $40/hr and you fly 80 hours a month that equates to a minimum of $576/year (.6x80hrsx12months))

-Per diem is reduced to $1.80 (since on 1/1/2013 our per diem would be increased to $1.95 we are losing $.15/hr which doesn't seem like much, but equates to $540/year if you average 300 hours time away from base each month ($.15 x 300hrs tafb x12months))

-We will NOT be paid more to fly larger aircraft (E175/CRJ00)

-PBS (cannot emphasize enough how much we will lose in money and quality of life from thisdoes nothing to address our supposed longevity issue (in fact it will only make it worse by providing the most senior pilots the highest pay)

-Flying during vacation is no longer paid at open time premium

-If you are ever displaced you will be required to check your schedule every single day instead of once at noon prior to your original sequence

-Deadhead pay reduced to 50%

-Newhire classes can be cancelled immediately

-Will someone explain to me that 30%bucket bs

-Reserve time balancing(what's the point of a seniority system)

-The furlough protection doesnt protect approximately 75% of the FOs

If I missed anything feel free to add, or correct me if I made any mistakes, as I am a couple beers in.

 

Mason32, the remarks you just made sound pretty scandalous. This is the first I have heard of it.

 

Call our union offices, leave a message for any BOD member and ask for yourself. Your union has ignored us.

 

The 30% bucket is that only 3 out of 10 captain slots in a bid can go yo a person who currently holds a captain seat, so if, big if we re fleet then new upgrades will get the new jet at as the more senior folks might not be able to bid it, unless displaced and of course the company controls that.

 

I've been hearing this for some time from the APA. It appears that ALPA decided to get a conceptual agreement at all costs, disregarded any direction form LEC Officers to talk with the APA and then covered it all up.

This is what a ALPA Negotiator said recently about the APA recently on another board. Someone is lying here and I can't find any motives for the APA to do so now...

 

Mason32,

One list was worked out 8-10 years ago. Darrah torpedoed it at the last minute. While that may not mean much to the current APA BOD, I'm sure the Eagle MEC is more than a little wary.

As far as not telling people, I rode the j/s of the APA Boston rep at the time and he hadn't heard one thing about it.

 

I know it'll pass by a mile, but I got my no vote in today. I wish more would do the same besides those of us on this board. I say 60% vote and it passes 75%-25%. What a shame Tony convinces so many.

 

They could make every rule better in this TA if they wanted to, PBS alone would negate all that and make sure our lives suck more. I used PBS for 6 1/2 yrs it blows. It'll eat up your QOL and days off, like fat boy Tony at a pizza shop.

 

Just to fix my previous post. It was supposed to read:

-PBS (cannot emphasize enough how much we will lose in money and quality of life from this)

-This TA does nothing to address our supposed longevity issue (in fact it will only make it worse by providing the most senior pilots the highest pay)

 

Do you realize that we are in bankruptcy? Not section six.

Pay banding was a way for the union to get the savings the company wants, it precludes its pilots from entering into multiple training events, or seeking equipment to obtain extra pay. It is much better than going back to pay step 15 for captains as it is requested if filed to the court on its 1113.


We get 3 hours per current blue book for vacation. (3x7=21) so no changes there. I do understand if you have vacation and your four day trip is more than 21hrs you would either lose some pay or use it from your PTO; however, if you have a 18hrs four day trip you still get your 7day vacation block and only get charged for 18hrs thus keeping 3 hours on your PTO bank that you can use later. Overall, PTO offers some more flexibility than what we have today.

Once again eagle (AMR) is in bankruptcy, we were lucky we got to keep any IAI adjustments at all since we owe the company 2% on adjustments due to the 16 year contract. So even at that point we would be cash flow neutral after the two years. After that we get adjustments including Skywest something we didn't have before.

These are the FACTS.... We get paid $1.90
Browse other airlines and see what they get paid for per-diem:
Republic : $1.65
Skywest : $1.75
Expressjet: $1.80
Allegiant: $1.00
Air Wisconsin $1.60
Comair $1.75
MESA $1.36
Horizon $1.80
I could keep going but you get my point.... We lose 5 cents in bankruptcy and we are still at the top of the regional industry.


Pay scales were stablished on the previous contract, new rates will be negotiated at the amendment round anything more than 79 seats has to be negotiated from day 1.


We get PBS either way the only difference is that there is an LOI that allows alpa to have some control over it. (pairings, actual schedule input, bid line quality etc) It will also will give us more time to do it outside bankruptcy. You feed PBS a bad contract it will give you bad QOL. (Please read the LOI if you want)



That is a concession no doubt, as well as one week of vacation. If you have been at eagle 5+ yrs you lose it only for one year not forever as the 1113 wants it, but we get to bid it anyways. However if you can't live without it, you could fly OT and deposit it in your PTO to pay for it.


We don't get displaced too much, I'm sure It is inconvenient. But it shouldn't affect us much at all.

I don't get to deadhead that much and if it helps me to keep my pay so be it.

Not much control over that......

Someone already did!

They still respect seniority proffer until 75hrs credit, and then time balance, so. Seniority still applies.

We don't get any protection at all with the 1113. So how can that possibly be a bad thing?


You don't want to accept that AMR is in bankruptcy. It is a process geared towards the protection of the debtor. Not the union and its members. We have a concessionary deal, ALPA has made that clear from the beginning. But when you compare that with the 1113, and the potential of a contract abrogation it seems at lot better than the unknowns.