View Poll Results: How will you vote for for this TA
Yes - Furlough 1,500 pilots and downgrade 405 Captains
73
27.14%
No - Furlough all 2,300 pilots
70
26.02%
HELL NO!!!
126
46.84%
Voters: 269. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: Pinnacle TA - Vote Yes or No (Dec 22)
12-24-2012 | 08:22 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,203
Likes: 270
First, many FOs see the severance package as an attractive reason to vote yes. That severance package is actually your own money that will be taxed higher. If you vote no and just throw 9% of your money into a savings account every month til shut down you'll have a severance package just as good.
Next, if PNCL shuts down 81 900s will have to be placed elsewhere at a higher rate and therefore compensated better. PNCL FOs will be first in line to benefit from those jobs not only because they will be furloughed first during a wind down but also because the top 400 or so at PNCL who are older and haven't been an FO in decades will likely either retire, switch careers or apply to majors/lcc's etc. Doubtful many will apply at another regional. Vote in the TA and those now senior to mid level captains will occupy 400 captain slots and 400 FO spots at very low pay rates for several years(Not sure how long the TA contract length is). Even with the "flow to the interview" it's still doubtful many will move on.
Lastly a wind down of PNCL will cause several other regionals not in bankruptcy to grow quite quickly. 41 900s and many 200s(at least until the 717 fleet starts reaching a significant size) will go to a regional not in bankruptcy very quickly, then another 40 firm to potentially 70 900s in the long run. Skywest, XJT, Air Wisconsin and GoJet is all that is left to operate these aircraft. Each would have to hire so many so quickly first year pay would likely be thrown out. Vote the contract in and Not only would FOs be furloughed anyway, there would be at at least 800ish jobs less to go to as they would be occupied mostly by pilots who have been at PNCL 10 years+ locked in at payrates other regionals pay their junior capts,FOs.
PNCL FOs and very junior captains, dont vote yes and give yourself a significant paycut to get furloughed anyway and paid a portion of your own money as you exit. Don't vote yes and dampen your own career prospects to save the job of only the very senior who will be paid as junior pilots while hindering your own pay at your next job if it be another regional.
Just vote no and save yourself in the long run.
Good luck with your decision
12-24-2012 | 08:23 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,203
Likes: 270
12-24-2012 | 08:48 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,648
Likes: 0
Spot on. IMO, any FO who votes for this TA is doing themselves a major disservice as the ramifications of voting in the TA will follow the FOs and some of the junior captains to their next job. It is a better financial and career situation for most Pinnacle pilots except for the very senior older pilots to vote the TA down and have the company shut down. I have several reasons.
First, many FOs see the severance package as an attractive reason to vote yes. That severance package is actually your own money that will be taxed higher. If you vote no and just throw 9% of your money into a savings account every month til shut down you'll have a severance package just as good.
Next, if PNCL shuts down 81 900s will have to be placed elsewhere at a higher rate and therefore compensated better. PNCL FOs will be first in line to benefit from those jobs not only because they will be furloughed first during a wind down but also because the top 400 or so at PNCL who are older and haven't been an FO in decades will likely either retire, switch careers or apply to majors/lcc's etc. Doubtful many will apply at another regional. Vote in the TA and those now senior to mid level captains will occupy 400 captain slots and 400 FO spots at very low pay rates for several years(Not sure how long the TA contract length is). Even with the "flow to the interview" it's still doubtful many will move on.
Lastly a wind down of PNCL will cause several other regionals not in bankruptcy to grow quite quickly. 41 900s and many 200s(at least until the 717 fleet starts reaching a significant size) will go to a regional not in bankruptcy very quickly, then another 40 firm to potentially 70 900s in the long run. Skywest, XJT, Air Wisconsin and GoJet is all that is left to operate these aircraft. Each would have to hire so many so quickly first year pay would likely be thrown out. Vote the contract in and Not only would FOs be furloughed anyway, there would be at at least 800ish jobs less to go to as they would be occupied mostly by pilots who have been at PNCL 10 years+ locked in at payrates other regionals pay their junior capts,FOs.
PNCL FOs and very junior captains, dont vote yes and give yourself a significant paycut to get furloughed anyway and paid a portion of your own money as you exit. Don't vote yes and dampen your own career prospects to save the job of only the very senior who will be paid as junior pilots while hindering your own pay at your next job if it be another regional.
Just vote no and save yourself in the long run.
Good luck with your decision
First, many FOs see the severance package as an attractive reason to vote yes. That severance package is actually your own money that will be taxed higher. If you vote no and just throw 9% of your money into a savings account every month til shut down you'll have a severance package just as good.
Next, if PNCL shuts down 81 900s will have to be placed elsewhere at a higher rate and therefore compensated better. PNCL FOs will be first in line to benefit from those jobs not only because they will be furloughed first during a wind down but also because the top 400 or so at PNCL who are older and haven't been an FO in decades will likely either retire, switch careers or apply to majors/lcc's etc. Doubtful many will apply at another regional. Vote in the TA and those now senior to mid level captains will occupy 400 captain slots and 400 FO spots at very low pay rates for several years(Not sure how long the TA contract length is). Even with the "flow to the interview" it's still doubtful many will move on.
Lastly a wind down of PNCL will cause several other regionals not in bankruptcy to grow quite quickly. 41 900s and many 200s(at least until the 717 fleet starts reaching a significant size) will go to a regional not in bankruptcy very quickly, then another 40 firm to potentially 70 900s in the long run. Skywest, XJT, Air Wisconsin and GoJet is all that is left to operate these aircraft. Each would have to hire so many so quickly first year pay would likely be thrown out. Vote the contract in and Not only would FOs be furloughed anyway, there would be at at least 800ish jobs less to go to as they would be occupied mostly by pilots who have been at PNCL 10 years+ locked in at payrates other regionals pay their junior capts,FOs.
PNCL FOs and very junior captains, dont vote yes and give yourself a significant paycut to get furloughed anyway and paid a portion of your own money as you exit. Don't vote yes and dampen your own career prospects to save the job of only the very senior who will be paid as junior pilots while hindering your own pay at your next job if it be another regional.
Just vote no and save yourself in the long run.
Good luck with your decision
12-24-2012 | 09:16 AM
#34
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
If you put it in a regular 401k, not only are you going to be taxed on this money, but you won't have the money with which to pay the tax -- it'll all be in your 401k account. You'll end up with less money than you would've with just your regular salary.
Not saying the 401k is a bad idea, just make sure you understand how it all works.
12-24-2012 | 09:39 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
From: CRJ 900
Union said it will be paid as regular salary not as a bonus, so you will be taxed at what ever your income bracket is. If you want it to go into your 401k then you will need to adjust your contribution amount for that pay period so that what ever the percentage of your payout is, is what you contribute. If it is done in this manner then it will all come out pre-tax. Keep in mind the what the 401K IRS max is though. I believe it is $17,500 so if you are in the group that gets a fairly large sum you could hit your max very quickly for the year. In that case you may want to seek an IRA or other investment vehicle to shelter your income.
12-24-2012 | 09:51 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Spot on. IMO, any FO who votes for this TA is doing themselves a major disservice as the ramifications of voting in the TA will follow the FOs and some of the junior captains to their next job. It is a better financial and career situation for most Pinnacle pilots except for the very senior older pilots to vote the TA down and have the company shut down. I have several reasons.
First, many FOs see the severance package as an attractive reason to vote yes. That severance package is actually your own money that will be taxed higher. If you vote no and just throw 9% of your money into a savings account every month til shut down you'll have a severance package just as good.
Next, if PNCL shuts down 81 900s will have to be placed elsewhere at a higher rate and therefore compensated better. PNCL FOs will be first in line to benefit from those jobs not only because they will be furloughed first during a wind down but also because the top 400 or so at PNCL who are older and haven't been an FO in decades will likely either retire, switch careers or apply to majors/lcc's etc. Doubtful many will apply at another regional. Vote in the TA and those now senior to mid level captains will occupy 400 captain slots and 400 FO spots at very low pay rates for several years(Not sure how long the TA contract length is). Even with the "flow to the interview" it's still doubtful many will move on.
Lastly a wind down of PNCL will cause several other regionals not in bankruptcy to grow quite quickly. 41 900s and many 200s(at least until the 717 fleet starts reaching a significant size) will go to a regional not in bankruptcy very quickly, then another 40 firm to potentially 70 900s in the long run. Skywest, XJT, Air Wisconsin and GoJet is all that is left to operate these aircraft. Each would have to hire so many so quickly first year pay would likely be thrown out. Vote the contract in and Not only would FOs be furloughed anyway, there would be at at least 800ish jobs less to go to as they would be occupied mostly by pilots who have been at PNCL 10 years+ locked in at payrates other regionals pay their junior capts,FOs.
PNCL FOs and very junior captains, dont vote yes and give yourself a significant paycut to get furloughed anyway and paid a portion of your own money as you exit. Don't vote yes and dampen your own career prospects to save the job of only the very senior who will be paid as junior pilots while hindering your own pay at your next job if it be another regional.
Just vote no and save yourself in the long run.
Good luck with your decision
First, many FOs see the severance package as an attractive reason to vote yes. That severance package is actually your own money that will be taxed higher. If you vote no and just throw 9% of your money into a savings account every month til shut down you'll have a severance package just as good.
Next, if PNCL shuts down 81 900s will have to be placed elsewhere at a higher rate and therefore compensated better. PNCL FOs will be first in line to benefit from those jobs not only because they will be furloughed first during a wind down but also because the top 400 or so at PNCL who are older and haven't been an FO in decades will likely either retire, switch careers or apply to majors/lcc's etc. Doubtful many will apply at another regional. Vote in the TA and those now senior to mid level captains will occupy 400 captain slots and 400 FO spots at very low pay rates for several years(Not sure how long the TA contract length is). Even with the "flow to the interview" it's still doubtful many will move on.
Lastly a wind down of PNCL will cause several other regionals not in bankruptcy to grow quite quickly. 41 900s and many 200s(at least until the 717 fleet starts reaching a significant size) will go to a regional not in bankruptcy very quickly, then another 40 firm to potentially 70 900s in the long run. Skywest, XJT, Air Wisconsin and GoJet is all that is left to operate these aircraft. Each would have to hire so many so quickly first year pay would likely be thrown out. Vote the contract in and Not only would FOs be furloughed anyway, there would be at at least 800ish jobs less to go to as they would be occupied mostly by pilots who have been at PNCL 10 years+ locked in at payrates other regionals pay their junior capts,FOs.
PNCL FOs and very junior captains, dont vote yes and give yourself a significant paycut to get furloughed anyway and paid a portion of your own money as you exit. Don't vote yes and dampen your own career prospects to save the job of only the very senior who will be paid as junior pilots while hindering your own pay at your next job if it be another regional.
Just vote no and save yourself in the long run.
Good luck with your decision
12-24-2012 | 09:56 AM
#38
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 396
Likes: 0
One thing people need to keep in mind is it is almost a certainty that Delta will go back to court with Pinnacle Management in tow and get rid of the JCBA if the pilots vote NO on the TA. This idea that if the TA is voted down the JCBA will remain in effect until close is unrealistic. Also furloughs will come quickly if Pinnacle is wound down. Only the top half of the seniority list will even make it to the end of 2013. So FO's who think that they will get to save 9% of their pay until Pinnacle Closes and that will be the same as the bonus haven't thought it through.
12-24-2012 | 10:11 AM
#39
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
One thing people need to keep in mind is it is almost a certainty that Delta will go back to court with Pinnacle Management in tow and get rid of the JCBA if the pilots vote NO on the TA. This idea that if the TA is voted down the JCBA will remain in effect until close is unrealistic. Also furloughs will come quickly if Pinnacle is wound down. Only the top half of the seniority list will even make it to the end of 2013. So FO's who think that they will get to save 9% of their pay until Pinnacle Closes and that will be the same as the bonus haven't thought it through.
I'd be willing to bet that a. the airline winds down and shuts down anyways and b. if voted down the wind down would be only marginally quicker.
12-24-2012 | 10:15 AM
#40
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
Likes: 0
From: EMB 145 CPT
Union said it will be paid as regular salary not as a bonus, so you will be taxed at what ever your income bracket is. If you want it to go into your 401k then you will need to adjust your contribution amount for that pay period so that what ever the percentage of your payout is, is what you contribute. If it is done in this manner then it will all come out pre-tax. Keep in mind the what the 401K IRS max is though. I believe it is $17,500 so if you are in the group that gets a fairly large sum you could hit your max very quickly for the year. In that case you may want to seek an IRA or other investment vehicle to shelter your income.
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