It doesn't matter if it's a 12-year or 20-year pay scale. At the end of the day, when the majority of the workforce is topped out the costs are skewed. It happened with Comair, and when this happens Delta will look elsewhere.

Either new regionals will start up with employees at the bottom of the scale, or they will look for labor contracts that are severely in their favor. You said it yourself, that they will try to find the cheapest contracts. While I will agree that it is good business on Delta's part to do this, all you're really doing is delaying the inevitable of being closed.

The time is beginning to run out on all established regional airlines. The next wave of flying will be cyclical going to GoJets or other new regionals, and when they are no longer cost competitive, Delta will once again look for new alternatives.

Barring major concessions, no established regional really has much of a chance to live past the next five years or so IMO. If people just took the time to run a cost analysis of a senior workforce versus a junior workforce such as GoJets, they would see exactly why Delta is choosing to do what they are doing. They are in business to make a profit and return as many dividends to shareholders as possible, and the best way to do that is to control labor costs.

That is the reality that you face, and it doesn't really require a crystal ball to be seen.

 

This might be the best thing that ever happened for the Pinnacle pilots. Maybe Delta decided that divesting themselves of regional airlines costs too much money. They had so much fun buying a refinery, that they decided it would be a good idea to go buy a regional airline with a senior pilot group and lots of 50-seaters, just to keep the competition guessing. After all, Delta wanting to get out of the regional airline business is so 2011.

Or maybe you're getting Comair'd.

I'm not telling you how to vote. I'm telling you that Delta and ALPA are singing to Pinnacle the same song they gave Comair.

If you think they are going to change the ending this time, I hope you're right.

 

Yeah just keep telling yourself that,and everything will be ok.

 

+1......there is a HUGE difference being capped at year 12 pay at $82/hr and 4 year pay at $36/hr vs 18 year pay at over $100/hour and 7 year FO pay at $45/hour. Would you guys still complain about max out if it was a 5 year Captain scale and 2 year FO scale? Would that be the root of our problems when people made $60/$25 because we were "maxed out?" Use basic math skills....

 

Well i don't think having a maxed out pay scale is a big deal. It isn't like a 5 year Captain is doing anything different than a 10 year. Other than the 5 year working more days and getting less vacation.

But the rates should be reflected of that. If we raise the squished the rates (Lower at the top end and higher at the bottom) we might be able to get some stability in the regional sector.

I can understand a somewhat lower first year rate for f/o's. But after year 2 they should be able to make $50k. Should be the minimum for this job.

 

OK, Delta wants to keep the costs down. I get it. But what I am baffled about is how another companies longevity and rates paid being the reason for this TA.

Delta contracts with all of our companies. Either on a per flight basis, per hour, or some standard measure. Our companies do the math, figure their costs, and decide whether or not to bid for new flying or accept the offered pay that Delta is willing to pay. I get this. Sometimes we get flying sometimes we don't.

What I don't get is if Delta is only willing to pay a certain amount and we agree to do the work, what would Delta care what the pilots are being paid?

I have a lawn service. I pay so much per month. I don't care what the guy is making who pushes the lawn mower. Service gave me a price - I agreed to it. If he comes back and says he needs more money because his costs go up - I can either pay more or find someone else.

Someone is going to have to explain to me in little words what difference it makes to Delta whether we have 27 year guys or 3 year guys. If the regional accepts the amount of money Delta is willing to pay then it's none of Delta's business.

 

Well it makes a difference in our case because delta will own us, and I think that has been the plan for some time

 

Maybe they want to profit so much each mo or quarter. Keep the costs lower they are able to profit more and recoop their money quicker. So once they get their investment back then they can drop us or sell us off. I dunno though

 

In the cases of Comair and Pinnacle, they are wholly owned by Delta. If Comair knows that a block hour will cost them $200 (just using a random figure), but knowing that the bidding will be less than that, they have a choice: either give up the flying to another airline or bid lower to try to protect routes. In the cases where they bid lower, they are actually flying that route at a loss.

In the case that Delta owns the company, the company's profits and losses are Delta's. If Comair bids $150/hour to secure the flying, they will be doing the flying at a loss of $50/hour, which means Delta is taking a loss on its own flying. This is one of the reasons Comair lost out on a lot of flying, as they couldn't bid for the block hours that were paying less than what it would cost as Delta wouldn't allow them to take the loss, as ultimately it came out of Delta's profits.

As for an independent regional just working on contract, it really wouldn't matter to Delta what their payscale is; however, it would be in Delta's best interest that they have a lower pay scale as a lower scale means lower wages = lower block hour cost = larger profit on bottom line for Delta. Mainline wants lower contracts for all regionals, as it lowers their cost for contracting with them.

Kind of dumbed down layman's terms, but you get the gist.

 

I believe that several of the DCI contracts contain a clause which requires the carrier to be the X-lowest cost carrier. That, in and of itself, would make a huge difference in who wins the contract. And it also perpetuates the race to the bottom. And that is why Delta would care if you were receiving pay as a 10 yr captain/FO vs a 2 year captain/FO.

[I have to do some more research on whose contracts actually contain such language.]